Muse

so we have an amazing guest today austin steinberg did i pronounce that right steinbart steinbart

okay is that american version uh that's that's uh it's a german it's a german name how would

would a German say it, Austin? Steinbart. There you go. I can't wait to dive in about this topic with you because I know that you have extensive background with the Vatican as well. So we're talking about one of the most corrupt places on earth. Organizations. Exactly. Organizations that I don't know if there's a way to save this little city in Italy. I don't know if there's any way of saving it, but we will definitely discuss how corrupt they are and what they do that we don't

know about. It should probably be reabsorbed back into the country of Italy so that they have to

follow the same laws. Right? I think it's a fascinating subject because this is a place that gets away with pretty much everything, whether it's making deals with the Nazis, child molestation, deals with the gang and sex trafficking. I mean, they get away with everything and I want to know why. So we're going to dive in, talk about Vatican, talk about what's conspiracy theory and what's a fact, discuss it in detail. I think our audience will love that. So I want to start with a story that I experienced. Well, not myself, but someone that I interviewed experienced. So it's like firsthand experience for me because I interviewed the person who it happened to. and it was mind-blowing for me how Vatican reacted and what they did to a person that believed in this institution all his life and like his entire family, right? Let's start with what Vatican is itself. It's a country inside a country. What many people don't know, it's only 0.49 square kilometers. That's it. And yet they have their own currency, which they never use. They have their own bank that is not accountable to European Union, like anything, really. It's its own thing. And yet they get away with it. It's also very interesting that Vatican is not part of European Union, even though Italy is. So what they do is they just have an agreement with European Union to use euros as their currency, even though they have their own coins, right? So have you ever heard of Vatican City and its differentiations, like what Rome does versus what Vatican does? Like what's your take on it?

It's its own sovereign state.

Yeah.

So they don't have to follow, especially with the banking, the same KYC or Know Your Customer Rules as everybody else. So their own laws, their own sovereign state, it's a really good loophole if you want to do shady stuff.

You know what it reminds me of? Have you heard of something called The City in London? absolutely it's very similar like it's crazy that it is something like the city exists inside of the city of london and it's not even a democratic institution like there is a something called the city and it is inside of great london like what we call london even though london is a city itself and it is governed by banks so you don't have a vote in the city vote belongs to the banks Not to the people.

It's like a 700-year-old medieval enclave that in there, the same laws as what has the rest of the UK don't apply to there. So the Bank of England, they're headquartered there. And by being headquartered there, they have that. They're free from KYC laws. So what this allows the city of London to do and the Bank of England to do, because they're in the city of London, is they can essentially backstop a huge network of the world's offshore banks. So the majority of the world's offshore banks, the reason that rich people feel comfortable putting their money in like Barbados or the Caymans or somewhere sketchy, right, is because that bank is backed by the Bank of England. And the thing that allows the Bank of England to back it is these 700-year-old grandfather laws that say the Bank of England, as long as it happens abroad, then we don't have to look into where that money is actually coming from. So it's like a giant laundry machine, right, in the heart of London.

Exactly. And we're going to dive into that because Vatican Bank is very similar. Like it's not accountable to anybody like Fed or European Union. So, OK, then how is that this tiny little 0.49 square kilometer country has such a powerful bank and then operates it, you know, in cahoots with the CIA and other agencies? We'll dive into that. But let's start with an interesting story. So somewhere in 1981, May. 13th, Jean-Paul, the Pope, Jean-Paul II, goes and greets the crowd. He's in good spirits. Everything is going well. And all of a sudden, a young Turk national, I think his name was Aliaga, Muhammad Aliaga, shoots the Pope. He fires four bullets. He doesn't kill him,

but the Pope is wounded. Amongst the cheering and the peal of bells announcing the arrival of the Pope, they heard gunfire and saw the Pope turn pale and collapse bloody into the arms of

his aides. Well, Aliaga obviously goes to jail. They question him. He's not making any sense. Like, he's all over the place. Like, who ordered the hit? Sometimes he said that he was just angry at the Pope. Sometimes he said it was the Iran that ordered the hit or Israelis or, I mean, he names everybody and anything that he could come up with. So they leave him alone as a crazy not. Very similar to what happened with Sirhan Sirhan and RFK's case, Robert Kennedy. So very similar with the situation, very similar with how the questioning went. We can discuss that a little bit later, but the Pope survived. And then in 1983, a young girl, 15-year-old Emanuela Orlandi, disappears from the streets of vatican and that's weird because vatican usually doesn't have like crime like high crime rate you know people don't get kidnapped in vatican just like in the streets in the daylight right so that case was really weird from the get-go and then when she never returns home obviously family goes to the police and said hey you know our little girl is missing can you do something about it police takes 24 hours and they come back and say well well she's probably eating pizza with friends. Don't worry about it. Like she, you know, she escaped. She's a teenager. Right. But it was weird. But before she went missing, she called her sister. That's correct. And we'll get into that, too. So what happened is I interviewed Emanuela's brother extensively. Like we went to all details. I saw everything that the family could offer. Right. So what happened is Emanuela wanted a ride to her music lesson and asked for Pietro, her brother, to drive her. Pietro had some plans with the girlfriend and he declined. They had a fight and she just stormed out. She was very mad that her big brother declined her request. But anyway, so she leaves by herself and she never comes home. But before the whole kidnapping or missing person situation even erupts in Vatican, she calls home to her sister, older sister. And she says, hey, so I've got this guy that randomly stopped me in the street and offered me a job. And the job looks, you know, really appealing. Like it's a it's a job for a branding like company. Fashion. Yeah, fashion brand. So I have to be pretty much like an ambassador. so she's very excited she's only 15 she wants to make her own money so everything goes well like she hopes that she's going to meet this guy and she's going to get a lend a nice job yeah that never happens what we are faced with is a missing person situation 15 year old is lost and police says well we can't do anything about it guys because you know she's probably a teenager doing teenager things and that's all we can do all right well what's uh interesting is even

the police does nothing we hear from the pope so this is very unusual for the pope to take these kind of situations uh you know in his own hands and come out and address the crowd about a missing persons case like when do you remember missing all the time exactly and you don't see pope coming out and saying oh my gosh like we have a missing persons case right but this was different so before you make the speech says hey so a little girl disappeared and he makes this like crazy speech but in his speech what's very interesting is that he says something like for those copable well okay so you're talking to people that did this right for those people who are copable like who's who's to blame here so what is he talking about like those copable like who? So you think it's not a missing person's case? What makes you say that as a Pope? So this is where family knew that this guy knows something that, you know, he's not telling us.

Even if he doesn't do it every day, if he does it, it's obviously sending a message to someone.

let's open all cards so orlandi family worked with the pope they were no ordinary family like his father was helper of the pope they saw each other every day so this is something close to the pope right so people can say well that's why he made that address to the people because he felt different about this case it was about a family he knew right so the problem i have with this is, okay, if he knew something, then why not talk to the family? Why not talk to the family and say, hey, listen, I understand your situation. Let's do something about it before you just come out and tell this to the world without family even knowing. They were shocked. Like, what is he talking about when he addresses people who did this? Like, we don't even know that it's not a missing person's case, right? So this was really strange, but it did help the investigation because Because when Pope made this speech, people kind of started looking. And there was an officer, a traffic officer, that remembered that this girl that was, you know, her poster was everywhere in the town. So he remembered that she actually approached me. So called the police and said she actually approached me in the street and she asked for a specific location. She was looking for some room, like I don't remember what exactly she was looking for, but some room, some kind of either cafe or whatever. But she was not alone. He said she was with a guy, older guy. So they were like, great, describe the guy. So he puts together a sketch of this person that looks, it's a weird sketch, not an attractive dude. No one knows who this guy is. I mean, they put it out and zero leads whatsoever, right? And family doesn't know him. Like, it's just not a familiar face. Before people even have time to put, like, you know, these dots together and make something out of it, kidnappers reach out to the family so they call the father of emmanuela and they say hey so we have your little girl and we are ready to make a deal so the guy on the phone says i don't have much time so i have to go and we'll we'll connect with you again that's it right so obviously like this recording is available online if someone wants to hear it but um uh you know her father is absolutely like shaken like because now she now he knows that he's right like she's she's you know taken as a hostage so the problem here is um these kidnappers they don't like act like usual kidnappers right because they don't talk to the police they talk to vatican so for some reason these random kidnappers of this random girl want to talk to vatican only they don't want to interact with the police at all now that's very suspicious to me personally and i can't wait to hear your opinions because i don't know as as long as i you know been around kidnappers usually

call the family for ransom right and they didn't ask for money yeah they didn't ask for anything so they just asked for vatican to listen so that's weird but that's what happened right so then um they wait obviously they want to hear from vatican they call vatican There's a conversation that goes down between between personnel of Vatican and the kidnappers. The problem is, as soon as the conversation starts, we don't have the recording and Vatican refuses to release it till today. So, OK, if it's a random kidnapping, then why do we need to hide the conversation? I mean, obviously, you guys are just good Samaritans trying to negotiate this deal with this girl. Right. So why do you have to hide it? that's one that's very suspicious and then another thing happens that is like very questionable so uh they don't interact with the family anymore what they do is they release a video actually not a video it was an audio um with a manuela's voice on it but audio was um kind of reducted in a way so it's obvious that she was getting raped by multiple men but the voice of these men were not in the recording so they cut the voices out for whatever reason maybe because they didn't want to be recognized maybe because we would all recognize their voices who knows but that's what we got and then family over over the years family actually got the full transcript and they realized that there were three men, three different men, and all their voices were just cut out. But there were words that they got the full transcript. They couldn't hear it. So that's another thing, like, why? It's the family. You can give the evidence to the family, right? I mean, if these are just bad guys and we are all working toward just one goal to release this girl, then what's the deal here, right? Nothing like, what's so important about this girl, right? Exactly. Maybe they were worried about them recognizing the woman. voices. I think that's exactly where it's going, right? So then, obviously, investigation kind of stalls. There's much more to the case and no one asks any questions. What's really shocking to me though, in between this back and forth with the kidnappers, Vatican comes out and says, and this was the Pope and his crew, they come out and say, well, kidnappers made their demands and They want to exchange Ali Yaga. Remember the shooter, the Pope shooter? They want to exchange Ali Yaga for her. So they want him free, baby. Yes, and that's what this is about. It's 14 days. We've been given 14 days, and we've got to do the swap. So now the nation is, like, in turmoil again. They're like, oh, my gosh, like, finally, at least something. We're moving somewhere, right? So we're going to exchange this girl for the killer. Done.

Well, 14 days comes along, and nothing happens. But did they release Ali? No, they didn't. So that was the demand. And Vatican says that, hey, we complied to your demand. We're ready to release Aliaga. The problem is when the day came and the entire nation is waiting for this because Vatican told them to, that this was going to happen. Vatican comes out and says, oh, well, kidnappers changed their minds. They don't want Aliaga anymore. And that was it. And people just ate it up. Okay, I guess they don't want Aliaga anymore. So the reality is that they never wanted Aliaga, and we'll get to that. Sounds like that was just a cover story. Exactly. It was just a cover story for the Vatican to get out of the mess they got themselves in. That was it, right? And we'll explain that, too, in a second. But another interesting thing happens, and this is very important, if we want to get to real corruption and real nitty-gritty stuff here, right? We have to tell you the full story. Like what happened and how is this case related to much bigger things that actually concern every American out there. But then something interesting happens. So after the investigation stalls, six months after, Pope goes to the family and visits them. Unannounced. Just shows up. He doesn't say anything. He doesn't give them any information. He just shows up and says, well, there's two kinds of terrorism in this world, he said. And your sister, and this was said to the brother of the girl, your sister was a victim of the international one. So not domestic. So he meant there's two kinds of terrorists, domestic and international. And your sister is a victim of international terrorism. So he gives clues, but he obviously knows something, but he's not saying anything. Okay, great. And then he does a weird thing. He offers Pietro, brother of Emanuela, job in the Vatican Bank. Now, one would say, like, why is that a problem? He's doing a nice thing. Well, the problem is not only he doesn't have any experience of any job, he's like a young teenager. And he puts Pietro in one of the highest positions in the bank. And I'm like, okay, what is this? Is it like honeypotting someone into something? Like, what is this? Like, why is he doing this? Pietro himself told me that he thinks that he wanted to keep him close. Like he did it because he wanted to monitor his activities that he would not actually get to the truth. I honestly think that Pietro is wrong. I think that Pope was trying to help him and will get there, too, because it is a complicated place. An act of contrition, of guilt for what happened with Simba.

No, actually, I think what he wanted Pietro to do is investigate and he put him exactly where he needed to be to investigate his sister's kidnapping because Vatican Bank was copable. Like it was people in Vatican Bank and everything about this case was about the bank. So what he did is he actually helped him get into the place where he could have like, you know, solve this. was helping yeah yeah i think he was helping and but he put it but for pietro he was so mad at the pope because he pope was not pope was put in the position where he couldn't do much couldn't say anything yeah yeah and i think that his anger towards him kind of blinded him uh and hey listen we're not protecting the pope here okay they are all weird but the thing is we have to look at the case as it is and i'll explain why i think that pope was actually trying to help him so this case goes frozen like no one touches this case for years still working at the bank yep pietro is still working at the bank right so then something where it happens like um i think it was on the university but don't quote me on that exactly what day it was but someone gives a tip to the news channel and they say well if you want to solve that old case of emmanuel or londy this is years later this is years later yeah when everybody gave up like almost 20 22 years after yeah so um except for the family i shouldn't say the family gave up um they were extremely angry at the pope father even said like someone that i served all my life betrayed me he also thought that pope knew a lot and he was not saying which is true but pope had his reasons and i will explain in a minute so um what happened is 22 years after a tip comes through a new channel somebody calls the new channel and says well if you want to solve this case you have to look into uh something called santa apolinare it's a place where all the popes and very like saint people are buried right so he said look for the grave that doesn't belong there that's all he said so obviously the family like rain to see like what's going on there. And they find a grave that really doesn't belong there. And the grave belongs to Enrico de Pades. Well, who was Enrico de Pades?

Was it a mafia boss?

Yes, mafia boss. So what is a mafia boss that was convicted of terrible crimes? I mean, this is a gangster. He's a sex trafficker. He's a child trafficker. And he's buried with the most like holy people on earth what is he doing there and what's amazing is he's buried like and we I think we have a picture of this with the cross and like all the rituals and everything it's like are you kidding me so obviously they realized that the pettys had to do something with the case right and they were right then Pietro put two and two together and he looked at what he had already as an evidence and he looks at this sketch that that officer made long time ago and it's like exactly Enrico de Penis like the sketch is like that guy so but they still don't have everything right and this is where he's like okay so now we know that this guy is somehow involved but what does Vatican has to do with it so if if my sister was a victim of a gang violence then what why were they talk into Vatican, what does Vatican has to do with it? And then someone interesting shows up and actually officially testifies with the police. And her name is Sabrina Minardi. So Sabrina Minardi is an interesting case because Sabrina Minardi was a famous face back in the day when Emanuela got kidnapped. She was married to a famous sportsman and then left this guy for Enrico Di Pettis like the mafia guy the mafia guy classic classic stupid women shit that they pull off every time so yeah for sure and um yeah so it was a scandal in Italy when that happened because they were like what is this woman doing like you know from a respectable sportsman with some gangster um but they were together they were an item for for the longest time and then de Pettis dies and so many years go by Sabrina comes and testifies she says I know what happened to Emmanuel Orlandi and she said well Enrico de Pettis was involved he was the one who did everything but he he did this because the Vatican stole his money and he wanted to threaten them. And that's why he did it. So people were like, what? And he said, well, in Emanuela's case, he said, there was an archbishop, American, Marcinkus involved, and De Pettis' direct contact in Vatican was Marcinkus. Okay. So I was like, you know, this is very interesting. This just got a whole lot bigger than just the kidnapping case, right? So she testified that not only she saw how they dragged Emanuela from one car

and she was drugged, she said, she was out of it. They dragged her from one car, put it in another, and that car had Vatican plates on it. So that means that, you know, exactly what that means. Yeah. Vatican's involved. So, yeah, and that was what she said, and that was it, right? So obviously people wanted answers. They got none, and no one ever dived into it.

It's interesting, though, because that mafia boss was a domestic character. So that contrasts sharply with what the Pope had said earlier about how this is an international matter.

Good point. So the problem is at this time, guys, and of course, this agency is involved. I mean, how else can this go down without the CIA? So the interesting thing is CIA is running an Operation Gladio at this time. So what does that mean? So what was Operation Gladio?

like you want to talk about it like yeah so it was it was after world war ii

There was a lot of concern because there was this kind of like tug of war between Russia and the United States over Europe. And they were under the guise of fighting communism. Fighting communism. And they made a bunch of deals with mafia bosses. And they used the Vatican as a giant money laundering and operations hub because since it's a sovereign nation, you can keep the police from investigating it. You can store weapons there. You can move money there. so uh the reason they use the mafia this this is a continuation of a of a long-standing you know intelligence practice throughout history right you're the good guys and the bad guys at the same time um but the mafia they were fiercely uh anti-communist right they they were the mafia at this core is very capitalistic sort of characters yeah and they don't even care as

long as their money is safe right that's the thing like as long as their money is coming and flowing they don't even care like it's that's the best part like CIA the CIA is looking for people like that they want to use them right so you're absolutely right yeah and and if the if communism

takes over and then the government takes all of your stuff right that's the worst case scenario for a mafia boss so uh they prefer Lucky Luciano and the Don of all Johns and a bunch of people throughout Italy um there was concern that there was uh this I think it was called the Social democrat party that was they called communists was going to take over italy and so they said hey we got to do this to prevent the rise of communism they they got the church involved and there was in the late 40s assassinations kidnappings um all kinds of violence and all kinds of false flags and essentially they that was the first foothold into europe for rigging the elections and having this gladio gladio was like a state behind army after world war ii so they squirreled henchmen and weapons around everywhere and there's different iterations of it gladio was the italian version and there's different iterations for different european countries but it's this vast shadow army essentially that the united states can use to and the cia can use to rig

the elections and control stuff in europe absolutely and then eventually take over the world you know i don't buy their excuse about communism you know why because at the same time when they are like, you know, putting this fear in American minds that, oh, my gosh, communists are eating babies alive. That was that was actually a thing they said. I'm like, OK, so coming from a communistic country. No, they didn't. But the thing is, they are telling Americans that and then they are opening up communist China. Like, OK, what makes China so different? You know, wasn't Nixon who started opening up China completely? And at the same time, he was like, oh, communists are bad. OK, great. Well, then why are you dealing with communist country?

Seems like more of just a pretext, like a like a bad guy that they need to stand up to justify their extremely heavy handed interventions everywhere. And it's kind of funny because everything they accused the communists of doing, intelligence wise, they're often doing themselves like 10 times as hard.

I absolutely agree with you. So, yeah. And that's what, you know, that's where this case comes to. Like that, that's what happened. So I think, and this is now, let's put all the facts aside and let's start speculating. I don't know if Pope was involved. You know, it just makes no sense to me that he was involved. Then why would he, you know, go through, why would they kidnap the girl, then threaten him or talk to him? Like that doesn't make sense. But I think what happened to Jean-Paul is that he became a pope and then he looked at the system he was part of and he was like, wait a second, this is anything but church. Like this is Vatican Bank operating for intelligence agencies like the CIA, who is in bed with the gangsters and we are laundering money for them. Like this cannot happen. so I think he pushed back and I think the first assassination attempt only two years before the girl got kidnapped only two years before was meant to kill him because he was causing trouble inside their paradise and there is this pope who's using his heavy weight with people and pushing back on them right so they're like who do you think you are we're going to take you out and they tried but he survived like there you go God's hand And it sounds familiar. And what's important to know is that the CIA used Jean-Paul, the Pope, to launder the money and send it to the Solidarity Movement in Poland. Now, this is a real story, real documented history. So the CIA had an operation. They were aiding a movement against Soviet Union in Poland, typical overthrow operation that we always do. and they realized that they can use the Pope because the Pope was Polish and they tried to use him. Of course, they approached him with all the good reasons and all that and I think the Pope did.

discovered that once he was in it, he discovered that something was way off and this is not what he signed up for and he wanted to back off and they didn't want him to back off now. So I believe there was like a threat type of situation where they threatened him. So the CIA, we know, was very heavily in bed with the mafia, right, in Italy. So now they pulled the Pope into this triangle where the mafia and the Pope and the CIA are operating together and somehow sending money to solidarity, right? So I believe that the Pope realized what he got himself into. I don't think he was corrupt and he aided them willingly and he was happy about it. I think at first they painted the picture telling him that, oh, this is for greater good. We are going to out the Soviet Union, blah, blah, blah. And I believe that Pope got into it. And very soon he realized that he's dealing with sex traffickers and some crazy people. And this is why he said to Pietro that this is an international terrorism.

seems like um he came in there they he was just discovered that there was all this money laundering and that it was funding all this legitimate evil everywhere and so he tries to push back they try to kill him and you know sometimes it's it's not as big of a threat when it's you right as a man you can be like okay kill me if you want to right god's with me uh but then when you go kidnap a child of someone close to you right maybe that's a child that he had interacted with a lot throughout his life that's a much more gripping scary threat uh and then it seems like when he went to the family and was insinuating this is not a domestic matter this is this is an international matter absolutely right he's talking about how the cia uses these mafia characters right if if you cross them they're not going to send some you know men in black masks with like a the cia thing on their shoulder they're going to send some hired mafia people to come after you so it sounds like a plea to his fellow countrymen to like hey please stop dealing please stop appeasing these foreigners and come to your senses usually the mafia um they they have a code right that you don't go after women and children um so they had broken their code in that so maybe he's appealing to the mafia's sense of honor which normally excludes women and children right and uh saying like hey come on don't don't get in bed with these guys this is not your country man we're

countrymen exactly and isn't that scary how the pope has no power over them like over the cia in his own country he has no power that scares me and that is a huge part of this story that people absolutely need to hear because that will help them come to a conclusion that we are coming to right now remember aliaga muhammad aliaga that shot the pope well guess what he's a confirmed member of the gray wolves what is gray wolves a violent turkish ultra-nationalist organization that was tied to the cia so we mentioned gladio operation gladio in the beginning of the episode which was secret armies that nato and the cia left behind in these countries in Europe, Grey Wolves is equivalent to Gladio in Italy. So they literally had these crazy militia units, the CIA and the NATO forces did. And I personally believe that they used Aliaga. This cannot possibly be a coincidence that Aliaga ended up shooting the Pope, the guy who literally worked for the CIA in a crazy, violent, ultra-nationalist terrorist group in Turkey. so of course it's not a coincidence and they use this guy to try to kill the pope and he failed he died he he was unable to do anything about it he died and the next pope comes to you know power to vatican and um the same thing happens to him like he's he's pushed back he's pressed on i mean And you can talk about the situation with Viganò and what he discovered, and we can kind of unleash everything.

Yeah, so there was a guy, Viganò, appointed by Pope Benedict, 2009 Secretary General of the Vatican. He was one of the highest-ranking administrators under the Pope, and he was discovering that there was a huge deficit, not a surplus. And it wasn't because— In the bank. In the Vatican Bank. and it wasn't necessarily just because they were bad at managing money it was because there's this money going out the back door towards this nebulous program you know where he was going? Overthrowing other countries' leaders? By the way, that's what happened with De Pettis, right? So they said that Pope stole the money to fund solidarity in Poland to conduct a coup, a regime change in Poland, which is true. Pope was doing that. But I mean, it was not the Pope. It was the Vatican that was doing that through coincidentally an American archbishop oh it's just a coincidence it was american like you know it has nothing to do with the cia or or like you know conditioning people and putting them in places like you know it's randomly an american in italy doing shady shit so yeah but you're absolutely right and you know

what did we gonna do so he sent some letters kind of like blowing the whistle on this and the the italian government stepped in and they started seizing assets so they put together this huge report on the vatican corruption um that included sexual scandals and misconduct and a whole bunch of other stuff and it ended with pope benedict being one of the first popes to resign in 600

years you know what's amazing about that like he did not resign because of the scandals but that's what media would want you to believe so what happened is he hires this guy who exposes these ginormous corruption that John Paul couldn't. They killed him before. How did John Paul die? This is speculation again. I think they poisoned him. And there's a theory that goes around that they did. We don't know. Officially, he just died from natural causes, whatever. But what's interesting is when Benedict comes to power, he sees exactly what John Paul left. Right? And John Paul was writing private diaries, by the way, who he said that when I'm dead, destroyed and the person in charge of his diaries said destroying these exactly i'm not gonna do that it's too important and obviously that landed in benedict's hands right so he knows what's going on they are doing whatever they want they are in bed with gangsters all of that so obviously benedict is like okay well i'm i'm dealing with a monster here how do i take down this monster i can't like what can i do about it so he puts the only person he trusts to at least like shine the light on it and vegano does that just that he shines the light on it and then what happens is the entire bot media spins it as if it was pope's fault like oh yeah that corruption is going on but don't blame the church blame the pope the guy who just got here yeah the guy just got here like it's almost like yeah this happened yesterday guys we don't know what you're talking about it's brand new how did he expose everything sorry he like realized that okay money's flowing somewhere else so he just did good old investigation that was never done before and he did it because the pope gave him the blessing to so he was not afraid to put it out because pope said hey you're going to be my little spy here so they kind of conspired with each other and they they did enough to get it out there but then the media spinned it as well blame the pope why are you looking in the bank like it's the pope's fault right so at the point the pope was sitting there and thinking okay so what do we do with this stuff Like, how am I going to play this game? And he did a brilliant thing. Like, he did an amazing thing. So he said, okay, so I can continue being a pope and continue with this bullshit. Or what I can do is I can be one of the first pope in, like, so many years to just simply resign. And you know what that means when pope resigns? His entire team needs to resign. It's just given. It's a law in Vatican. So he literally destroyed them by making that decision that he was out. That means all of them are out.

And before he went out, he leaked a bunch of stuff through a trusted proxy to the press there.

He had a—I forget his name. Do you remember who he was? Like, he was his butler.

Yeah, let me see here. I'm struggling to pronounce his Italian names. Paolo Gabrielli?

Yeah, Gabrielli. It's Gianluigi Nuzzi, as I understand. and what pope did is that so this is a trusted butler that he had for years and all of a sudden butler decides oh i'm gonna inform on the pope i'm gonna like secretly look at the documents you know looking at these two and their relationship it's documented that the pope and the butler had a great relationship they were super tight um he was you know telling this butler all kinds of stuff like all kinds of secrets so they trusted each other this is why i have a hard time believing that one day he just woke up woke up and snitched on the pope right and i also don't believe it because then pope pardoned him right you don't pardon a snitch that destroyed your career you just don't do that i think what happened is the pope told him to take the documents from his desk which he had access to and push it out Thank you. They're in the public because it cannot come from the Pope. It has to come from someone else. And he knew that as soon as this guy pushes this document out and tells the world that the Vatican Bank is corrupt as hell, and the entire institute is, this guy will be arrested or they will come after him. And I think he promised him that, listen, don't be afraid. I will pardon you. I will take care of this. And he did. This guy gets pardoned by Pope. Okay, so let's say you are the Pope, and I just destroyed your career. Would you pardon me?

Not unless you were doing me a favor in the first place.

Right? Exactly. And I think that's what they negotiated. I think Pope told him, don't worry about it. It's Vatican. We don't have to operate like Italy. They will not take you anywhere. They can put you in jail. It's under my authority to decide what happens to you. So you do this, and then I'll pardon you. And that's exactly what I'm going to do.

exactly unfortunately after he resigned uh francis re-promoted a bunch of the people that

he was exposing in the first place exactly see that's the thing like the benedict took out the gang heads right and then francis put them back what do you do with these people there's nothing

you can do like there's nothing you can do entirely controlled in the first place absolutely

And what's crazy is that to come back to Orlandi's case, right? So Pope Francis was the first Jesuit pope, by the way, in Vatican. And I personally think it was corrupt as hell. But so do many other people. When he met Pietro for the first time, when he was meeting the crowd, greeting the crowd, Pietro was one of them, brother of Emanuela Orlandi. and the first thing he said to Pietro was don't worry your sister is in heaven really Pope Francis I thought we didn't know where she was how do you know she's dead there's no official record saying she's dead or killed or anything so how do you know where she is by any means she should be in her like what like 40s late 40s 50s maybe so how do you know she's

dad maybe she's not probably something they they keep around to remind the popes of what happens if you if you don't play ball here the briefing on day one the men in suits come in and they're

like hey this is how it's gonna go i think they pick the pope with the same principle as they pick american president like they have to be clean good looking and they don't have to know about anything other than what's necessary right good puppets yeah good puppets and like president is only there for four years he's just an employing government and he has need to know base guys can you imagine that the head of the country in charge of nuclear weapons has a need to know clear start clearing status i mean that's what pope is they like look at the guy who's like the cleanest no child molestation history no nothing let's put him up or minimal that's acceptable in yeah so that's pretty much it that sums up attacum and they could just play the game

that has been going on for a long time in the vatican with the cardinals right they do that election so um i think going going back a long time whoever bribes and or blackmail it's like a it's a mix of ruthlessness and charm uh we got the carrot and the stick with all the cardinals here and we can essentially affect the outcome the exact outcome that we want for who's gonna be

next pope absolutely what do you think about leo oh tough question new pope well he's american Yeah, he's American. Yeah, I mean, we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. That's it for today, guys. Join us for the next one.

Thank you.