Muse

I didn't do a PhD because I wouldn't be here now if I had. And there's a long backstory to that. You'd have been thoroughly brainwashed. Well, no, I think it's, I literally wouldn't be here because James DiMeo was going to start a PhD into Orgone and Cloudbusters. His MSc, well, actually it was an MA, but a master's anyway. It was at Kansas University, and he was looking at whether cloudbusters have a real effect, and he found that they did at master's level. And then he did some work in Africa and Israel and with cloudbusters later on that is beyond PhD level. He could have easily made it into a PhD paper, but his PhD was blocked by the National Science Foundation, I think. But if I had gone on to do a PhD, it would have been blocked. And perhaps I could have gotten away with doing a theoretical one. But the problems with a PhD is it attracts worldwide attention. And up until my MSc, I think the powers that be ignored master's papers. and but after my msc i've had people contact me saying i'm trying to do a a master's in free energy and it just gets shut down as soon as i even bring the subject up i can't even get to the point where i can discuss it and i think because the people because people knew that my masters would be read around the world, it changed how masters are perceived. And so I don't think it's as possible now as it was in the 2000s, early 2000s, to do a masters in a controversial

area. Interesting. Interesting. And I obviously have a lot of value for education and really mastering a craft and a subject matter, but I care less about the credentials and this and that. We know there's a quarantine around this stuff. So why beat our heads against the wall when the wall is owned by those making the quarantine? It's like, I don't need your validation. I'm gonna go improve this stuff myself. So just to give people some context, you were recommended to me by Andrew Johnson, who I had a great interview with not long ago about Dr. Judy Wood's work and the application of this secret science that we saw used on 9-11. And if he recommends somebody, I'm going to take a serious look, and I'm glad I did. As we were setting this up, you told me that you've heard all the previous interviews I've done about Reich and Oregon.

And for those who... I'm twice.

Well, I appreciate that. And for those who might want to follow up with some of these older interviews or refresh their memories on the list, we have James DeMeo, your old mentor, who covered Oregon, Ether, and CloudBusters primarily. Peter Robbins, who focused on Oregon and the relationship to UFOs. Ryan Peverly, who got into the political aspects and the Reichian psychology and just the man himself. And then there's Mitch, the Organite donor. And Organite is one of those things that a lot of Organ people say they're not all that interested in, although it is the first thing that comes to mind because they see these little pyramids out there. But, you know, he makes the Organite devices and tries to reduce and block EMF in kind of a guerrilla way. And, you know, he's very interesting too. but those are the pieces of the Reich puzzle that we have covered in the past and you're not going to wrap up a guy like Reich in a single conversation or apparently even five but you have said that there's some pieces some holes to fill in some deeper implications we might have missed and that's where you come in and the hole in our understanding is mainly Oronor which is energized Orgone And of course, you know, you have applied orgone research to consciousness as well. But this Oronor, when I hear you talk about it, it is really interesting. This is something that Wright got into in the last phase of his life. Obviously, the research continues. We go deeper and deeper. And he got to this depth in a single lifetime, which is a beautiful thing. But it's what I've heard least about. Break us into understanding what Oronor is.

Sure. Well, there's four main areas of the biophysical side of orgone. Well, in the non-biophysical side, you've got the biopsychiatry, which is the actual hands-on physical psychotherapy that developed out of the... electro studies of Reich. But then in the biophysical side, body psychotherapy is the proper term that I was looking for. But after the biophysical psychiatry side, there was four main areas of biophysical organs study. It started with the bions, which are the tiny vesicles that halfway between living and non-living and i i think um you've covered that pretty well was it ryan that covered it it was pretty pretty good yeah it sounds familiar because he would

talk more about the orgasm and the sexual nature the the real discoveries the the aha moments reich had that took him down the path and bion's is a big part yeah i remember now his focus was

was on the psychological side but he did cover the buy-ons as well to to quite a good extent i've just jumping back to the to the the academic stuff that it took me all the way from 2004 for like an uh the the year of the phd i did before i jacked it in all the way up to 2025 to finally finish systematizing biophysical ergonomy and on my consciousness on my sub stack there's four articles one one is a complete overview of every single research paper on biomes and one is a and then that that led into the second area of ergonomy which is all going accumulators. And there's a separate paper on my substack with a complete overview of pretty much every single paper on ORACs or orgone accumulators. Then the third area is cloudbusters. There's a few different types of cloudbusters. And of course, there's the organite tower busters, which are a fourth development there was cloud busters which was the original tubes that Reich at first grounded into a well and and shot at the sky so that he could punch a hole in in the door clouds or the deadly orgone clouds that were staying over organon all the time and they wouldn't go and he used these cloud busters to to get rid of those clouds and then that that developed into a whole scientific area in itself of how to even develop to the point where hurricanes were steered in the 1950s and 70s. And the weather in America would be vastly different if it wasn't for cloud busting. Dr. Blasband and a team of doctors did amazing work in jeremy eden uh further north in idaho i think but they did amazing work at the the if it wasn't for the work that was done by these group of doctors in the states that there would the the recovery from the dust bowl the the the u.s was heading into a dust bowl uh in the 50s to 70s mostly because of energetic stuff, perhaps nuclear, perhaps like exhaust from UFOs, all sorts of things were converging. But the US and Germany's forests would be dead if it wasn't for cloud busting. There was enormous amount of work done in the early 90s with cloud busters. So there's actually been a weather war going on underneath the surface. We know that.

Yeah. And then... So that actually led, well, kind of, Oronor came before Cloudbusters, the cloudbusting, and I've given it as the fourth phase. So again, on my substack, you can see in four sections, you've got Bionz, ORAX, Cloudbusters, and lastly, Oronor. that each one of those overviews will give you a synopsis of virtually every single paper that's ever been written in those areas there might be one or two missing but that it gives you a pretty good idea of the of because a lot of the research isn't even online the the titles are online but a lot of the orgone research is still just on paper well the recent stuff is online because There's only one journal publishing actual new experimental evidence now, the Journal of Psychiatric Orgone Therapy. which is at psychorgone, P-Y, as in psychology and orgone, psychorgone.com. And that's an open access journal. But the older research prior to about 2016, roughly, is virtually all just on paper. A little bit is online here and there.

Well, it's a true service you've done. It's a labor of love, and it puts a dent in the damage that's been done to our understanding of subtle energy, ether, orgone, and all this stuff. And that's a good overview of the categories that I think people who've gotten into Reich 101, maybe even 102 or 201, I've been out of college so long, I don't remember how they number these things. But, you know, let's go to this advanced class of Oron, or if it is radiated orgone or energized orgone, I mean, I understand what that means somewhat conceptually, but I have a hard time understanding how it is radiated or how it is energized. What is done to it to put it in this elevated state that requires a new term?

sure well it started off in 1951 but reich was worried about the the korean war and its effect on sort of civilians possibly like if there was a nuclear exchange and he wanted to see if orgone could counteract nuclear radiation and reverse radiation poisoning but say from a fallout of a bomb or something like that so he was really worried about the korean war so he he thought he better conduct some experiments into how orgone and nuclear materials interact and he had done some experiments already which he's he doesn't always admit to directly but he had been working with low levels of radioactivity in his lab since 1939, pretty much. He knew that radioactive paint would change how it shimmered if it was subjected to orgone. And he knew, too, that the radioactive dials on wristwatches, like in the 1950s, radium dial wristwatches were popular.

Yeah, I want to get into radium. when we get there, for sure.

Oh, so he was looking at how orgone might counterbalance radioactivity. And so he set up an experiment where he had a really strong orgone accumulator. He had a room-sized orgone accumulator, possibly, I think I worked out, it was something like 22 layers altogether. So he had a room-sized ORAC, which is fairly big, like a medium-sized lounge, completely covered in sheet metal. And within that, he had a large 20-layer accumulator, a big one that you could fit a person in.

And just for context, when you say layers, for people who haven't thought about orgone accumulators in a while or how this works, orgone is ether. I mean, it's ubiquitous energy in the air, but it is accumulated by layering steel wool and like regular wool or organic material. And so you layer metal and organic material and you can, the more you layer it, the more the container will accumulate the ether or it'll build up in there.

Yeah, that's right. You get a directional effect because metal bounces orgone and organic materials absorb it you get a stronger movement towards the center of the device because the orgone from the atmosphere or the ether from the atmosphere is heading through the device because it goes through all materials and it gets continually bounced more towards the center than it does towards the outside so so any metal and any organic material layered will will produce a preferential direction of orgone travel towards the center of the device and this can be proven scientifically because the temperature is higher inside the device and many experiments have shown that the temperature is higher inside an orgone accumulator or orac but there is other ways of accumulating it like the organite like i i try and bring the organite and the orgone communities together because they've both got... things to, to offer each other. Like the, the orgone community tends to be more focused on academia and, and research and the organite one more focused on, on, on gifting and, and doing practical stuff. But they, they both got valuable things to offer.

Yeah. You would think if this was a ubiquitous energy, it would tie into literally everything. And there'd be many, many applications. And we always, you know, we butt heads and we debate and we section ourselves off into little camps. That's just the human experience right there. But I took you off your course. You were talking about Reich had this room-sized organ accumulator, 20 layers, really supercharged this thing. And this is where the story gets into this oranor or the discovery of it, this heightened state.

Well, he had a super strong organ accumulator, like really, really strong. If you went inside it, you'd definitely feel it. Even if someone wasn't particularly sensitive to subtle energies, if you spent half an hour inside an accumulator that strong, you'd definitely feel it. And he was planning to inject radioactive serums into mice and study the effects on mice. But he soon discovered that it would be easier to find out how the orgone reacts to radioactivity and then use the energy on the mice rather than a serum. He'd gotten hold of a milligram of radium. I think one of his doctors had managed to get hold of some from Canada. And because in the early days of radium experimentation or use, you could get up to, it was pretty much an open market from the 1900s to the 1950s to buy radium needles. and the radium needles were anything up to 15 milligrams so that they'd they'd gotten hold of a one milligram radium needle which is is something that would come in a lead case but let's say if you if you took it out the lead case and and left it lying around in a room it wouldn't be particularly a big deal i mean they'd if you had a milligram of radium lying around today the the the authorities would probably get a bit anxious about it yeah but uh it it wasn't a huge amount it was enough to be um to warrant being controlled it came in a little lead case uh and so right right put that milligram of radium inside this super strong orgone accumulator and the the the effects first he didn't think anything of it he because he'd seen small-scale radioactive effects where the orgone was stronger than the radioactivity. So with the uranium paint or the radium paint and things like that, and the scintillation effects he'd seen in his laboratory in the early 40s, I think he was quite confident

that the orgone would overcome a milligram of radium quite easily and so no one really measured it for the first few hours and then one of his assistants came and said i think we might have a problem in in the lab the geiger counts are going crazy and and that's when he first knew that something strange was going on but he he carried on pushing the experiment for eight days i think it was and all and it was only when he was forced to stop the experiment on on the putting the radium inside the super strong orgone accumulator for i think the first day it must have been in for a number of hours three or four hours before it was taken out when the geiger counts were found to be very high. And then subsequent to that, it carried on putting it into the orgone accumulator for about an hour a day. But then on the eighth day, they had to cancel the experiment going any further because there was red and purple clouds inside. You could see through the windows of the experiment, the student's laboratory. the experimental space, that there was red and purple clouds and people were complaining of nausea and salt taste on their tongue and headaches and pressure behind the bones of the skull and feeling quite nauseous and all sorts of problems were happening to the people around it. And so at that point, they got the radium out of the accumulator and people would nearly faint trying to get the stuff out. And they put the radium in the woods, I think. And that was the end of the experiment. And the mice that had been exposed to the Oranor energy died. and there was a event there was clouds appearing over the top the the door clouds were appearing over the top of the of the area and that there was also a radioactivity emergency that went well not an emergency but the new york times noted that there was a spike of radiation all up the East Coast as far as Canada. So something quite major went on.

And some of the stuff we're going to get into is that maybe we've been lied to about radiation. Maybe it's not as dangerous as we're told, kind of like electricity. There seems to be multiple forms of it. We're only allowed to interact with one form of it, the hot form, which is obviously dangerous. With kids, I don't want them anywhere near all these damn outlets all over the house. So just like radiation, there might be different versions of radiation or applications that are more suppressed, and we're given all this propaganda about it to make sure we never tread there. So while it can be dangerous, it can also be other things too, and helpful in some ways, as you've talked about. So you concentrate ether, you expose it to radiation, and it amplifies it or it changes it in some way. And this gets us into all sorts of interesting areas. But I wanted to read something from your sub stack early on here. Because the issue is always, if this is so ubiquitous and fundamental, how can it be missed by basically everyone? And here you lay out a good analogy that explains the state of physics. You say, the reason physics is so hard to understand today is not because it is inherently complex, but simply because it is missing something crucial in its foundations. If one is observing plastic ducks floating in a bathtub, but swears blind the water doesn't exist, then one would have to make up all sorts of incomprehensible theories in order to explain the behavior of floating plastic ducks. I just love that. You say, perhaps mainstream Western physics is directly the result of a conspiracy against humanity. It is a physics of plastic ducts minus the bathwater. So why is the bathwater, the ether, so dangerous? In a nutshell, because you can power anything from it for free, and as we are discovering, it can be weaponized. I mean, wow. That really sums it up, and it's what's got me excited lately. I interview so many guests that explain the history of Rockefeller, monopolies, and the suppression of various alternatives to their empire, but that's where it stops, and it feels like it's time to stop bitching about the suppression and get over it, get past it, and do the hard work of bringing it all back, so I appreciate what you're doing and trying to help us understand this, but this idea that you can power anything from it for free. This is something that I want to be true. I seek out researchers who are good at making it sound true, but it's an awfully bold claim and it's not something I have experience with or even know how to verify or detect in regular waking life. How would you advise someone like me or listeners who hear such a claim like that? How can we experience it or do a little experiment to

lock this into something that we truly believe and can verify well a good place to start would

be the ether because there was a ubiquitous background energy i'm glad you chose that that quote that's one of my favorites and i'd forgotten about it but the um that it all goes back to to the victorian times and all the great physicists believed in ether and then around about 1904, Einstein came along and the ether theory was demolished on the back of relativity.

but also the Mickelson and Morley experiment of the 1880s or 1870s. And the Mickelson and Morley experiment was very poorly done. It was done in a basement when it should have been done in a high place. And it actually found some evidence for ether. So there's quite a lot of evidence since then for ether. And ether is basically orgone that is outside the body. When ether becomes encapsulated by a membrane, it is then a life energy. And there's multiple reasons why ether and its development into life energy has been suppressed. It goes as far back as mesmer. Mesmer discovered most of the same things that Reich discovered. He discovered a doorbuster or a cloudbuster. He had this method of putting one foot in a bucket of water whilst doing healing passes over people. That's like the Reich medical doorbuster. He had another device called the bacchae, which was energized iron and stones in water in a big wooden tub with iron rods coming out of it that people held hands on and then held each other's hands too to enable multiple treatments. And they knew about ether being dangerous way back in, I think Mesmer was the late, Was he the late 1700s or early 1800s? I can't remember. But the conspiracy goes back as far as then because the physicists knew that Aoife was real in the 1800s. They hadn't been hoodwinked yet by Einstein. But Mesmer developed most of the ideas in some form that Reich had and they expanded an enormous amount of energy to squash Mesmer's work. They had printed at great expense 20,000 copies of detailed books saying Mesmer's nuts. And they sent this all around Europe. And then they made sure that the kings at the time believed that Mesmer might pull their people astray and corrupt them morally. So they expended the amount of effort that the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration, expended persecuting Reich. They spent most of their budget in a few years in the 50s persecuting one man with a few metal boxes. And the powers that be did the same thing to Mesmer.

And it all goes back to the same thing. It's multi-pronged. It's not just free energy. it's that if you if there's a an ether that means there's actual a mechanism that connects everyone i mean we'll get more into this in in the consciousness side but if there's a mechanism that connects everyone then you don't need hierarchies as much or that or it means psychic powers are real like the one of the reasons the victorians were so convinced was so into spiritualism like everyone was into spiritualism even a lot of the scientists were like trying to prove that table tapping was was was real and that seances were real and and that they wanted to communicate with spirit realms it's because they believed in ether but now you've got empty space theories which quantum mechanics like and relativity theories that sometimes can be called empty space theories because they don't believe that there's any connecting medium to the universe so that it's it's it's partly free energy by henry moray had a a radioactive device that was similar to to reich's orgone motor like reich discovered the orgone motor in 1947 and henry moray earlier i think around it would have been the late 1930s early 40s it and that goes back to what you were saying about hot and cold electricity there there is different types of electricity like the the electricity that henry moray got from his radioactive radio which i think is a probably an Morinor Radio. was ran cold and when you ran a sun when you ran a light bulb through using henry moray's earth electricity it gave off light like the sun not like the the light we get from from grid electricity that runs through our house from from hot electricity and also goes back to one of the reasons we're told so many lies about radioactivity is because radioactivity leads to oranol and they don't want people to know about oranol both because it might revive the ether and also because of free energy consciousness effects psychic effects i mean it oranol is also the medium for paranormal phenomena so that that's another reason why it shouldn't be uh it shouldn't get into people's hands like it shouldn't get into the right hands it's got to

stay in the wrong hands right right yes that's all good context for the history of it we can see the narrative and the incentive to keep it suppressed but it just always drives me nuts that if we can power anything from it for free and it's everywhere well where is anyone powering any one thing from it i just it just seems like we're always stuck in that conceptual phase and it should be it's supposed to be so easy but i wanted to ask you about the oranor box because I know that you have one of these boxes and you think that the Ark of the Covenant is essentially the same thing. And then we see these pictures of Trump having this replica in his Mar-a-Lago office. And as you've said, it's probably not just some statue. It's probably a working version of it because if you have the context for the energy, making the device isn't really the hard part. So the Ark of the Covenant, while it's covered in all this mystique, it's only mystical because we don't have the scientific context but if you do, you can make them and you've made one I'm just curious what it is so we know that, we know what a box is, so you have a box that's layered in the materials that generate orgone, but then what's the next step? If you have this box what, do you have a piece of radium in it or how do you radiate the box to make it an or an or box and not just an orgone box? Right, I'll

tell you, can I skip back and just answer that question there sure there is a reason why it's not that easy is because you've got ether and orgone as uh pre-atomic energies and that they're a completely different type of energy to post-atomic energies which are based on on particles so the electricity that you've got in your house is a post-atomic electricity there might be pre-atomic cold electricity or more electricity that's closer to the ether than it is to matter but there's still two very different types of energy and to to make the the post-atomic energies from the pre-atomic energies is not totally easy it it it takes you you basically have to squeeze and excite pre-atomic energy to the point where it forms condenses into particles and then you have to amplify those particles so perhaps maybe a dozen to to 20 people have succeeded in in different processes that all do that and virtually every free energy device works on on that principle but in different ways You can do that so many different ways, but that's why it's not easy. And I can also answer your question from another time where you said, why are ether devices so small and have such a big effect? It's because ether is the primary thing that moves matter. So you only need a small amount of ether moving to attract a lot of matter. So a small concentration of ether or argon in the sky will pull in a whole load of water or disperse a whole load of water or a small amount of ethers moving very quickly and condensing will bring in a lot of electricity, will convert into a lot of electricity. So it's not an easy thing to do though. It can be done and I believe quite a few people have done it and and right did it and right did it without doubt i've got like i'm a hundred percent sure right orgone motor worked because the people who saw it working were really high caliber people

and um testified to it working so you could say the fuel is everywhere like the fuel is the ether and it's available the energy is available but if you don't have the generator then you can't use it so yeah they don't

let us have the generator they don't let people figure out how to make it and people who do

figure out how to make it tend to die yeah and henry moray's uh setup definitely worked as well i'm i'm like 99.9 convinced his work and then there's quite a few other people who've set up similar things but i mean even making petrol engines a lot more efficient can put put a person's life in danger so yes it it is um but that answers that question but to jump forward to what you were saying about how i i i how i made the orgone box into an oranor box well uh wright had a huge setup here like my room here was maybe what 6 12 18 24 uh 24 by 15 foot maybe well reich's orgone room was bigger than that i think maybe 30 by 20 foot somewhere around that and within that he had a load of orgone devices and as well as that he was on top of a mountain in maine in that absolutely pristine or go organotic environment or organotic just means of orgone. And so he was in a pristine environment away from towns that bring the orgone down. And on top of a mountain, which raises orgone energy further, he had low-level Oronor effects, which anyway, from the 1940 onward, before he actually did the Oronor experiment proper and he had this enormous accumulation of orgone because there's uh there's a relationship between oranol between orgone and radioactivity like the more orgone you have the less radioactivity you need to make it into oranol but if if you have less orgone you need a lot more radioactivity to make Orinor. So Reich had a huge amount of orgone, and he had quite a lot of radioactivity. And so I, in my, Reich's experiment was in 1951, and my repeat of it was the first proper repeat of the Orinor experiment, although some Spanish scientists did do a partial repeat of it in the 90s but mine was the first full repeat of of the experiment of the oranor experiment and it was exactly 66 years and six months between the two experiments i didn't plan it that way it just the more you work with with oranor the weirder things get it's like a it's like a psychic energy And it just, I've been forced to look into the Bible. It wasn't my choice.

I've heard you say that a voice just would, you'd wake up in the morning and a voice was booming in your head and it was telling you Bible quotes and you don't know why. And yes, you mentioned earlier, ether encapsulated in a membrane becomes life energy. There's all this stuff out there now about plasma and conscious plasma and the ubiquitousness of consciousness and who knows if there's an ecosystem that lives within that field. It seems like there might be and you've got experiences with it. But I just wanted to hit on that Ark of the Covenant thing and Oron Orbox because I want to make sure before the end of the first hour that's coming up here, we get to the consciousness experiment. So let us know about this this Ark theory of yours or what you've learned about it.

Well, it's partly thanks to roberto maglioni and he's done a recently done a great paper on ether which is available at psych orgone and going back into virtually every facet of it historically and how it's related to orgo and um but on on the oranor side in the ark of the covenant he wrote a book called the legendary Shamir. And Shamir is the Hebrew word, I think, for the activator that is put into the Ark of the Covenant. If the Ark of the Covenant that was recreated recently and that was at Mar-a-Lago, and it didn't appear to be activated, if they had have activated it, there would have been smoky clouds around it and people may not have been able to stand next to it so the picture that i saw of of it i don't think it had been activated at that point it might be activated now but it didn't appear to be activated when it

was at mar-a-lago at least when that photo was taken and how is it activated by putting a piece of by exposing it to radiation yeah so you you basically got a super strong orgone cabinet in the ark of the ark of the covenant and it's gold is the the very best accumulating material you can get well gold and like if i was to if someone said to me like here's here's 100 grand we want you to make remake the ark of the covenant i wouldn't make it the same as the biblical one but i'd copy it in principle i'd use gold gold as the metal and glass maybe as the organic material because glass is one of the best organic condensers of orgone. It's very good at containing orgone. And possibly the wood that was used in the Bible, that is a very thick, so it would take a long time for the orgone to travel through such stout wood. Plus the Ark of the Covenant was kept in a desert and deserts seem to have a very high orgone concentration. my atmospheres are very good for orgone activity like i've known of a couple of unpublished ex not experiments but unpublished clinical work with with orgone accumulators that were done in australia and eastern africa and they had much stronger effects than we got with the same devices in england because england's so damp and it's not a great environment for organ accumulation and so in the ark of the covenant you had perfect environment you had a really really strong organ accumulator and then you probably had the shamir which was put inside it like there's they actually refer to this in the bible uh but not directly i think it's directly in some of the the hebrew texts that are non that are not in the bible but basically the priests who are looking after the the ark of the covenant go into the to the to the central to the holy of holies, put the Shamir, which is probably a radioactive crystal or a radioactive meteorite, or it could even just be a piece of technological radium that was gifted to them, possibly by an ET, or they might have stole it from Egypt. It's possible the Egyptians had similar devices within the pyramid um so the the the ark of the covenant principles might might have been taken from egypt

but either way they they had a radioactive crystal that was put inside the ark and then that that would have created the oranor reaction inside the ark and then when the oranor reaction was strong that breaks through from this realm we're in to other realms. So they literally made a TV for God or a radio for God. That was basically what they were doing.

I've heard you say a radio station tuned to Yahweh. And I think that's another interesting thing. So if you're dealing with such a device and you hear a disembodied voice, you think, oh my God, that is God. But I don't know if it's the one true God or if there is an ecology of spirits and beings that exist, maybe just one click away from our reality that are opened up when you use this technology and combine these things. It's almost like it feels like a telephone, but the contact seems random. Like if you just pick up the receiver and talk to whoever answers, that's great. But it's like, how can we tune into certain entities and tune out others? how would you get the equivalent of a specific phone number for a specific being for a repeatable contact? That's kind of where I go because I'm not really a monotheist necessarily. Maybe I'm wrong, but you've had your own spirit experiences. I've heard you talk about not only this voice that was hitting you early in the mornings, but also an insect type of being that you talked to or experienced. What do you think about that? Just the premise of maybe this was just a spirit, a spirit called Yahweh and shit got way out of control. Maybe the spirit's not even good or have good intentions. And what would you say? How would you use this device, I guess, as a telephone or have repeatable contact with various spirits out there? Sure. It's definitely an ecology.

At one point, I was in the early days of my repeat of the Oronor experiment in 2017. I got a plasma ball. I consider plasma to be halfway between pure orgo and ether, if there is such a thing, and pure matter. Well, there isn't any pure either end, but halfway in between ether and matter, you've got plasma. So I was Oronor charging a plasma disco ball to see what effects I would have. And after about three weeks of Oronor charging it, I found that the plasma ball was about nine, ten inches high. And if I applied static electricity to it, like normal electricity from a battery or from the mains killed the Oronor dead. But if I put plastic cling film over the plasma ball and then rip the cling film off, I got a super luminous flash of blue, which was the Oranol being excited. James DiMio has photographed excited Oranol too, and Wright photographed it as well. and james de meo used the same technique as reich did uh orgone charging a vacuum tube or a gas tube and but i i use this plasma ball and but my my cousin was it was christmas 2017 christmas 2017 when uh starting into 2018 and uh my cousin had a really good quality camera and she her timing was absolutely amazing because it was really hard to catch these blue flashes and you could see them vividly but photographing them was really really hard and she managed to photograph this blue flash and then some years later my research friend who's a bioform researcher based on trevor constable's orgone bioforms he was looking he was looking through these photographs of of the blue flash and he saw forms in it and when we magnified it you could see all sorts of stuff there was an et face in it there there was um plasmatic entities faces one that was I think one was like smoking a pipe almost they were very clear if you look on Psychorgon and you search for the mine in Nick Hayes' paranormal paper you'll see the pictures and so to answer your question

sorry I've gone so roundabout again Doronor creates like a portal that spirits and psychological entities can transmit through.

There we go. Okay, that is a concept that makes sense to me. It's just an opening, and anything can come through an opening.

Sure, and actually there is one time when I was messing around with Russian portion research and Oronor, and I quickly found out I hadn't to do that and um because there's a thing called the portion mirror or cozy rev mirror in russian research and the cozy rev mirror is pretty much an orgone accumulating spiral and i thought well if the russians are using spirals to condense what they call portion energy which is pretty similar to orgone energy how about if i put spirals by the orgone box and i started doing that and but putting a spiral near the orgone box just created a completely uncontrolled portal and the things were jumping through and jumping into dreams and it wasn't nice yes the consciousness

experiments you did, this is a huge aspect of your contribution to the work overall. You've said it's an area that Reich didn't do much work on, but if we live in a conscious universe, there must be a relationship, and you did some serious experimentation on this, and it does involve dreams, and we don't know what the hell dreams are. It's actually quite interesting that you can mess with orgone in the physical, go to sleep, and it affects dreams or the quality of dreams and you've even said that you can take a mini cloud buster aim it at a corner of your room if you're a person who has trouble with entities coming in your room at night

you can aim this thing at the room and it makes the room uncomfortable for these entities and you'll stop having these experiences. So, you know, that might be useful to some people out there, but I just want to read this before I let you explain the consciousness experiments, at least briefly to fit into this first hour. You say, when I was doing this, it felt like my life was not my own during the time of the experiment with each session, the life of the participant and my own overlapped to some degree, even to the point where in session 10, I had the key dream on behalf of the participant. However, my whole life would correspond to the key numbers of each person for some days before and after each session. I'd describe it as like living in a paranormal fishbowl for six months. Everything was synchronized. I was in control of nothing. I mean, obviously fascinating. Elaborate on the conditions of the experiment here and the results you found.

You've picked out a key passage again and a key part of the consciousness experiment because number 10, participant 10 was the most unusual of the participants and that had a completely different context to the other nine participants in that there was a shared dream process but perhaps because she was anxious about the experiment I mean she'd recently started practicing not a born-again form of Christianity, but an evangelical form of Christianity that she really wanted to be part of the experiment, but she wasn't completely comfortable with it because she was worried about what energy was going to contact her through the energy box, understandably. understandably and she but her she ended up having a vision on the on the night of the experiment but she didn't have a dream and this is one of the worries of the whole experiment because it it depended on having each person having a dream and it and most people don't dream on demand and yet over 10 nights of experimentation there was 40 dreams 40 separate dreams in 10 nights which is a huge amount of dreaming but there was 39 of those dreams were from were from the participants and one was from me and that and that was with participant 10 and it was a shared dream i i actually dreamt her dream for her and i i i knew it was her dream i mean even that number 40 dreams that's biblical 40 is a key biblical number and as a generation in biblical terms and that's one of the reasons why i'm confident that there's a higher power involved in the energy box is because there's so many little things like the voice that spoke to me about the Bible. I mean, that was so powerful. It wasn't just an ordinary voice. It was one of the most powerful voices I've ever heard. And it was both male and female. And I've never read that portion of the Bible. And then it gave me two extra lines that aren't, it gave me a line from Psalm 139. And Psalm 139, I'd never even read. And then it gave me two lines in reply to Psalm 139 that aren't in the Bible. And there's a graveyard near here where I walk my dogs. And the graveyard

all reflects the numbers that were in the experiment. There's an Egyptian obelisk. It's a very, for a graveyard that was started in Victorian times, it's very progressive because they've got a non-conformist section, a Catholic section, a Protestant section, and a section where they put the poor people in big pits, literally. It's still there. but one of the key areas of the graveyard all reflects the numbers in the experiment and also references Psalm 139 so the Egyptian monument references another key number in the experiment which was 17 and 17 is a geometry or a number to word code that often is thought to represent a higher power or the divine. So going back to participant 10, she was worried that there might be a negative entity or a...

lower entity that was talking to her through the box and she was quite tired because she's a grandmother that looks after her children and her grandchildren and she she's she was pretty stressed and she'd not long had a some years back she'd had a big divorce and she was so I ended up having the dream for her and it was exactly her well her vision correlated with the numbers in the experiment but instead of her having the dream i had the dream and i dreamt about the key karmic event in her family to do with her dad and then for a whole this is why i wasn't in charge of my own life i nothing i was in control of absolutely zilch zero by even going to the supermarket like one time i went to the supermarket at 20 minutes to two to a supermarket i don't normally go to at 20 minutes to two i met two people who were involved with the experiment and the person that I met was best friends with she was participant seven no she was participant eight and she was best friends with participant seven and I'd just done participant seven's session and her key number was two like everything was based on two in her dreams and the box predicted that everything was going to be based on two and the numbers that i got and i i met two people from the experiment at 20 20 minutes to two in a supermarket so like my nothing i did in that that six months was really under my control well not under the control of my ego it was everything was under a higher powers control right anyway to go back to participant 10 i dreamt about the key karmic event of that had happened to her mother and father regarding the loss of their first child which would be her brother her first brother and the it could the dream couldn't have been about anything else absolutely could not and then the next day i and her numbers also reflected i'm jumping about a bit here but i don't want to forget i'll write it down i'll come back to that and so we we had the dream or i had the dream on her behalf about the key karmic event for her in her family that was holding her back that's why it came up in the experiment because that karma was holding her from moving forward i then the next

morning i was walking in the graveyard a big graveyard it's great for dog walking and i i saw a very unusual bird for a for a city area which is a buzzard a huge bird it's got a wingspan maybe be a meter and a two meters perhaps the male there was two there but huge wingspan and it was perched i i said to myself uh i i said to sometimes i call the energy the consciousness energy of the box i call it orin the orgone intelligence and i i i just said in my mind Orin, have I got the right interpretation here? Was that dream I had meant for Participant 10? And as soon as I'd thought that, I saw the buzzard in the only tree in the churchyard that was beginning to go into blossom, a cherry blossom. And all the rest of the trees were still in their winter coat. So that was confirmation, because this buzzard's pretty rare to see. I haven't actually seen it for a couple of months now. I think the pair of buzzards might have left the area. But just to jump back to the numbers, she being a newly committed Christian, she was worried about the boxers' energy. And her two numbers answered her question, like she wanted to know she asked a triple barreled question she wanted to know what her purpose was who was guiding her and there was a third part which we don't remember but the the first part of the question was answered by the the oranor numbers and the the oranor numbers spoiled that.

to saying that the first number i think was was 89 which in numerology becomes 17 so that means higher power a higher power is guiding you and then 17 boils down again to 8 which is the oranor key number so the the the energy of the box was saying you're being guided by a higher power through the Oronor energy. And then I got the specific dream about what was holding her back karmically. And then that was confirmed by the, because there was various animals involved in the consciousness experiment, the buzzards being particularly involved.

Well, I just want to step in to say, I think that's super interesting because a lot of indigenous cultures consider certain animals out of place to be a message and that we are in a soup of consciousness and messages are everywhere. It almost sounds like these examples you're giving us to summarize is that if synchronicity is a force in reality, like gravity, like it could hypothetically be turned up or down, these experiments and the exposure to concentrated energy kind of created a period of much denser synchronicity in your life. And it was a direct result of engaging in these experiments. And just like our senses are somewhat limited by our brain, you know, it filters out more than it lets in. You could say you kind of changed your perceptual filters or something there happened. And the separation between not only waking life and dream, but each individual's reality experience also broke down.

Yeah, you got it perfectly there. I might use that then to synchronicity. because i thought about synchronicity well i hadn't really thought about it much before the experiment and i i haven't explained the mechanics of the experiment if you want that in the first hour but the the the denser synchronicity is a very good way of describing it and that also explains why the the little cloud buster for nightmares works which i i've kind of jokingly called a spirit buster and that that happened with if you get a a bucket and put maybe three or four two foot long tubes even aluminium tubes will do and put those in the bucket of water try not to touch the tubes too much if you can and change the water every day or two and if you point it up at the corner of the room you should get less nightmares and this is because that there's an an actual material material's not quite the right word but dense dense energy component to psychic phenomena so there might actually be entities in the room that are that are interacting with any trauma in a person's mind to to create nightmares and the the denseness of the synchronicity all around me for that six months was just really intense i mean that was partly why it was so tiring and i i kept trying to end the experiment early and roberto wouldn't

allow me to man i think that's incredible and uh i've got so many little things i've heard you say that i want to get to and the mechanics of the experiment as well but you know we're drifting well past an hour so we got to save something for the other side of things so uh maybe we'll just move on at this point but let them know about your links obviously the sub stack anything else

they should know about following up my main one is the all going on consciousness at sub stack as my main place i i'm going after this there's a conference an orgone conference coming up at the end of may in italy and i'm thinking about maybe doing more regular kind of perhaps youtube videos after after that and and getting my work more as talk so it's not it's not just well my more informal written work is at my substack, orgoneandconsciousness.substack. And my more formal work is at the Mike Orgone Journal, psychorgone.com. And that's an open access free journal. And so those are the two main places for my written work. I do have a YouTube channel, but it's it's not particularly good no so i'm after the subset uh yeah i might i might start doing videos from the sub stack after the conference sometime in june but if people want to get in touch with me through the sub stack or through cycle going they they they can do i love it i hope i haven't jumped about too much all over the place no it's all good it's hard to to like there's so it branches off like a tree so there's so many different aspects to it that uh but um yeah

Well, I hope people were inspired to dig deeper. This is a bit funny, but I am such an idiot that I looked up this conference and I saw Naples. I thought it was in Naples, Florida. I thought we were going to meet on May 30th, but I don't think I'm going to go international on this one. I really thought it was Naples, Florida, but it's just Naples, the real one.

Yeah, the other Naples.

Yes, Naples the greater. All right, well, hey, I appreciate you, Leon. This has been a lot of fun. Take care. Thanks. It's been great. And just like that, boom, goes the dynamite people, a very thorough deep dive into the deep end of the orgone pool, which is already deep. And it was really for the advanced class of the advanced class, but he's taken the work in really interesting areas. And I always love when a person who is an expert in something has also heard all previous interviews we've done on the subject that can get just right into filling in the holes. And just to lay it all out there again, if anyone wants to go back, James DeMeo, he really is the orgone king. We covered ether and cloudbusters and orgone accumulators in that interview. Definitely one to check out. Peter Robbins focused on orgone and the relationship to UFOs primarily. Ryan Peverly got into the political aspects and Reichian psychology, and Mitch, the Orgone donor, makes Orgonite devices, and that was focused on using these devices to try and reduce and block EMF exposure. so pretty easy to say at this point we have almost a subgenre in the archive of Reich and Orgone now with 10 hours worth of material wild but I am very much into this I know Leon says Orgone and Ether have subtle differences but for a layman you can basically use them interchangeably and it speaks to what I've been charged up about lately that the unadulterated Earth realm is full of abundance and contains several different mechanisms or qualities that can be harnessed for the good of all, but we just have a management problem. We have a management class problem, a parasite class problem, predator class, whatever term you want to use. That is the bottleneck. Now, you know, I don't love these if we could all jest arguments or if we could just break the quarantine or get past the elite or end the empire, the world would be better. Yeah, no shit. Well, we don't get to do that, But I do think it's interesting to study these things and maybe explore and engage without permission in your own quiet corner of the world, or at least it's helpful in understanding what this world is supposed to be or could be, what is really possible. It's mind-blowing. They've done a great job with perception management and the big scientific quarantine. but there's energy filling up whatever room you're in right now that could likely power your house if any industrial effort whatsoever was directed at harnessing it i often think about theologians and these people who just know every bible verse and i just think man if you spend as much time

actually understanding the creator's realm like you do that book we might actually have something here. Imagine God being like, guys, I made all this for you. It's perfect. It's set up for thriving. The earth's negative charge can be played against. We have orgone energy everywhere. You can make healing boxes that don't even need to be plugged in and you can alter the weather again without any mechanical parts. Would you like put the book down and stop letting yourselves be slaves? That could be fun. It would be a great thing to try, wouldn't it? But everything's broken and people are dumb. Really great interview, though. I love the spirit contact stuff and playing with the dream space and getting into consciousness and just thought it was great all around. I think it makes sense that a fear of all radiation and nuclear energy was engineered to keep us away from the positive applications of these energies? Bob Grenier, Low Energy Nuclear Reaction. that's what he's studying it's funny because there is a conspiracy thread now that nukes aren't real I think a better way to say it is that nukes aren't as devastating for the long term as they've been advertised the earth is more capable of self-healing but the scarier you make the bomb the scarier the whole field of nuclear energy is and so yes they vastly oversold the power of their super weapon surprise surprise propaganda in wartime the plus show does get a lot deeper as always i probably could have done this for even longer leon really knows his stuff and seems to be a pretty unsung hero and pioneer of pushing orgone research further and i salute him for it become a plus member stop missing half the show free seven-day free trial with no credit card even required the higher side chats.com Now, people who did hear the full two hours probably noticed me getting a little anxious there towards the end, not only for the things I wanted to fit in, but we had such technical difficulties at the beginning that I almost had to call it and reschedule because I try not to let life interfere with the job. The job pays for the life. But when it starts to take three hours to get a two hour interview down on the track, sometimes the window I have for silence in this house is closing and I have to relieve my wife who's got the kids in the driveway because I was supposed to be done 20 minutes ago she's the best she really is a trooper and she does what it takes and she would tell me not to worry about it but I try to be conscious of her situation too when I do these things but the show must go on and we got it done I appreciate everyone who offered support

for my little break there not much but just enough to regroup and trudge on ahead what else is there to do and that means the traditional last episode review announcement and that would be Joel Saladin and he gets a 4.5 from the plus people that's a bit of a surprise usually I already know when it's going to be a little low but this one did catch me off guard I thought it would be a bit higher when i look at some of the comments i don't really see one big thing jumping out i don't know if it was a specific take or something that he said that people didn't like maybe just that it came in a bit short it is hard to say maybe just not that exciting in terms of material for a lot of people but food is obviously a big deal and i think he has a ton of insight into the problems with the industrial food system and what is needed to switch it over to regenerative agriculture. And I'm just super impressed with what Joel has done. Obviously not a terrible review, but a 4.5 I consider to be in the so-so category because our scale is so tight and a plus or minus a 0.2 is a lot on our scale. It is weird. I should work on that, but I can't find another plugin that does the job. maybe I got a vibe code, a new THC website. I don't know. That's what the kids are doing these days. All right. Meetup calendar. The next one we have is coming up this weekend, June 6th. That is the small equipment RX thing going on in Palm Bay, Florida, where the host of this event is going to have some basic engine set up and motors and going to teach people some practical life skills and how to repair stuff. I think that's awesome. Then the next day, June 7th, St. Paul, Minnesota, Blackstack Brewing. June 13th, Riverside, California at the Brickwood. June 21st, Chicago, Illinois at the Map Room on the Summer Solstice. June 27th, Gilbert, Arizona at the Desert Monks Brewing Brewhouse. And July 6th, Northcott Point, Auckland, New Zealand at the Northcote Tavern. Northcott, Northcote. Not quite sure. If you're around that area, I'm sure you know. July 20th, Oaks, Pennsylvania at Arnold's Family Fun Center. And then August 16th, Albuquerque, New Mexico, the tech conference. Love it. Good stuff. Well, reach out to Leon if you appreciate his work. I thought it was great. And he was right. This filled in the Oregon gaps in my game with a lot more than I would have even anticipated. And I loved it. Okay. Take care of you and yours. I've done my part. Your move. orgone deniers, reich repudiators and sorcerers of the scarcity spell your fucking move I see you sitting in traffic and you look

so stuck no sense of adventure just a routine fuck they can diagnose depression But don't know why you're bored Mystery comes knocking But you don't answer the door No, there are lights in the sky Not found on any map Creatures deep in the forest That no ranger has tagged There are things in the ocean You won't see from the land Life's under no obligation to make sure you understand I'm told the truth is out there When you get past the lies It comes when you least expect it And it wears a disguise It'll tell you everything just for goof Can't take any pictures, won't have any proof So I watch you live like you never wanted it A lost soul that's forgotten what really hard it is You didn't ask, but just let me say This is a horrible approach to seizing the day There are things you can know that you can't even think No doctor has medicine like the shaman's next drink Sleep is never better than inside of the dream Who promised you anything would be as it seems I'm told the truth is out there When you get past the lies It comes when you least expect it And it wears a disguise It'll tell you everything, everything Just for a go Can't take any pictures, won't have any proof

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