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The Joe Rogan Experience

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! Great to see you.

Great to see you.

What's happening?

You know, putting out an album.

This is the power of music. I told my wife that you were coming on, and she said... I don't want to get a mom... She said, if I die on my funeral, I want her song, I'm Coming Home.

Really?

Yeah. I was like, that's a heavy thought. And then I listened to it in the gym. I was like, God damn. I listened to the version where you were on the piano. It was like a solo concert. And I was like, God. that's such a it's such a great song but it's such a such a crazy thought yeah that someone

would want wow a very specific song man heavy way to start the podcast i know but

but that's uh you know that's the emotion of real music yeah you know it's like you sent me a text message about uh ai you know because you sent me one of your songs and you're like ai is never

gonna recreate this i said something like i don't think it's capable of writing stuff with this much

emotion yet well it's not real you know yeah it sounds cool that's what ai does they there's cool songs that come from ai but there's always gonna be and i completely agree with you there's always going to be a thing we know a person wrote it that they sat down and they wrote it and there's this connection with their their spirit and their creativity that comes out and that's what people love about music other than stuff that sounds i like i like ai music because it sounds cool but i know what it is i know it's just a robot i mean i think it's you know sometimes it's good for

certain things but the type of music that I make personally um it's like very therapeutic for me to write I always am writing from like a true emotion so um yeah each Marshall's giving you true emotion right now yeah it all has its place though I think AI is an interesting it's just like another tool I feel like that um you know when auto-tune first came out people were bitching about that and even like my first albums i recorded with my mom when i was a little kid we did it on two-inch tape you know so there was no computer involved so then computers got introduced and people were bitching about that like this isn't real music yeah you know it's just like all these technological advances to me i see them as just tools that creatives can use to

get their vision across what was uh what was peter frampton using back in the day it was like a tube or something, right?

I have no idea.

Do you remember, like, you know what that stuff is, Jamie, right?

It's a talk box.

It's like a tube you put in your mouth or something?

Yeah, so it's like a straw, and, like, the microphone picks up the sound, so the sound would go through the tube into your mouth, and then the microphone picks that up, and you're using your mouth.

Because I remember people hating that. Like, way back in the day, people were hating that. Like, that's not his real voice. Like, what is he doing? Why does he put it through that thing? you know i don't know but there's always i mean look there's always going to be tools that people use to enhance creativity but right the thing that's weird now is that they're making entire song like they can make a total skylar gray category and they sound pretty good they sound really good you know that's what's crazy yeah it's your voice it's your actual voice and it's

only gonna get better you know because it's so new yeah so those entire podcasts with me that i

never did really yeah there's a whole conversation with me and steve jobs i never met steve jobs just me and steve jobs talking about stuff is it the visual too no it's not the visual this one's just an audio one but eventually i'm sure there'll be a visual one yeah and there's definitely ones of me talking to people i've never talked to because like people pretend they're they've been on the show you know okay for fun yeah yeah conversation with me it's very very strange you know very strange yeah we're living in a weird blurry time yeah like the lines between real and not real are getting very blurry like it's an introduction to the matrix like we're getting like the first whispers of the fog of the matrix as it envelops us yeah we're getting just these little clouds like oh this is weird then eventually just give me we're gonna just be in

the full cloud of the matrix but i see people questioning everything now they're like is this reel.

yeah everybody's sussy about everything now you should yeah i mean there's people like prominent news people who've reposted stories with videos in it that were like straight out of a video game yeah it's very very weird time we're in very you know but i think it's also exciting oh it's definitely exciting you know it's fun yeah well it's weird anytime things are weird anything things like yeah but that i think it makes you really appreciate actual things like real physical things yeah i agree with that real connection with people real art you know i think that's what's going to happen a lot with ai like people's actual artwork like getting something like like this uh chimp sculpt this is made with uh thimbles symbols with zilgens oh yeah i see that this guy uh shane against the machine he makes yeah he's an artist makes cool stuff but like i know a guy made that yeah like when i'm fucking around with this like this

guy made it yeah i think it'll make us value real human-made art more and value like nuance and mistakes and things not being perfect you know yeah i mean that's part of what's relatable

about art is it and it's part of what makes us appreciate that it did come from a person you know like when you look at a really cool painting like that painting like that doesn't that's not perfect yeah it's not supposed to be perfect i love that just supposed to be an expression you know it's it's like a person's work it's like they're whatever they are their thing their essence is in that canvas you know yep how'd you get started doing music how old were you you said you recorded with your mom when you were little yeah how old were you i was six

when I did my first show whoa yeah so she was in like folk bands and stuff and she also plays Celtic harp and my dad was in a barbershop quartet my great-grandma was an opera singer so I just was like born into an extremely musical family and um when I was like two uh we were singing happy birthday to one of my aunts and I started singing a harmony and my mom was like what is going on how's a two-year-old singing harmony I wasn't even able to like say all the words but the notes I was singing were like the harmony part and then with all her bands that she was playing with all the time I would be at the rehearsals and chiming in and then they would like bring me up on stage to do little guest appearances and um it was just very clear that that's what i wanted to do wow and so when i was six we put together our first like hour-long set and i played at a library me and my mom together and uh it was a mother's day show madison wisconsin so i'm from mazo mani it's like a 1500 person really small village basically in wisconsin um and so then i just loved it and so we started touring around the Midwest and played a lot of really random venues like um elementary schools libraries uh women's health conventions I think the one of the biggest shows I ever did was actually a boy scouts thing and it was like 1500 boy scouts how old were you um I so I did this from the time I was six till I went solo I think when I was 12 or that's crazy this episode is brought to you by

zip recruiter it's good to be passionate about something exploring what interests you adds more color to your life it makes it more fulfilling in a way and that's not just limited to your personal life if you run a business you know how much of a difference it can make when the people on your team are excited about what they're doing. And if you don't, well, it's time to find out with ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. It's been rated the number one hiring site based on G2. And that's because ZipRecruiter is always looking for ways to improve the hiring process, including its newest feature that lets you see the most qualified and more importantly, most interested people for your role to make sure they're some of the first you start talking to find candidates who really want your job on zip recruiter four out of five employers who post on zip recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day try it for free at zip recruiter.com slash rogan that's zip recruiter.com slash rogan meet your match at zip recruiter that's an interesting life though to have your path carved out or at least the direction yeah at a very young age yeah and

It wasn't like I was, like, a Disney star or something, so it wasn't, like, on a big scale.

It was organic.

It was small. But I made decent money, I mean, for a kid. And I saved it up, and then when I was 12, I bought my first grand piano with the money I'd saved up.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. And so then I started writing songs at the piano, like, pop songs and stuff, solo. And it wasn't cool at that time to be singing with my mom anymore. like you know kids get really mean in middle school and they would like make fun of me because we were singing the silliest like like we are the colors of the rainbow and never smoked tobacco and my grandma slid down the mountain these are some of the song titles so it was very silly and I got made fun of and so I wanted to sing pop songs and uh I went solo and my mom was not stoked about that because like it had become her career singing with me like we i would miss like i would miss so much school um sometimes i had six shows a week so it was like a lot

oh look at that um so when you say your mom wasn't stoked about that was that like real friction between you guys

no i mean she was really supportive but like like i said it had become her career singing with me so it was like she had to adjust her whole lifestyle and everything for that wow you know that'd be a

hard decision for you then knowing that that's gonna bomb your mom out yes and no i just like i was so driven at 12 oh yeah yeah well what was the feeling like when you say you're so driven

like what was it inside you that made you want to i just loved making music and performing and writing and um i knew i just there was no like option of anything else i would do with my life and i knew i wasn't going to sing with my mom my whole life you know so i had that sometimes yeah at 12 that's so crazy god and i hated school so much and i begged to be homeschooled and we couldn't figure that out so i ended up dropping out um when i was 16 why'd you hate it so much um because i was so focused on music i felt like i was wasting my time in school wow um yeah there was this teacher that my algebra teacher um she said something to me that kind of lit a fire under my ass in a good way um she told me music isn't a career and i was like i'll show you bitch and so i dropped out and i never went back after she said that there's so many teachers

that have influence over children that say things like that and it's such a crazy irresponsible thing

to say yeah because i had i had missed um or i hadn't done my homework because i had a show the night before this and then we had a test and i aced the test i was a good student i had like a 3.9 um but i aced the test and but she was like but you got to do your homework just like everybody else in this class and i was like i had a show i couldn't i didn't have time and she was like well

music's not a career that's such a crazy thing to say because it's clearly a career like why do you listen to music who's making it i know when you go to a concert people are paying is there someone is there someone on stage is that a career like what do you know what the fuck does that mean It's not a career.

Small town Midwest, it's like, I mean, I guess everywhere.

It's everywhere.

People push the go to school, you know, get a good job. And I just wasn't on that path ever.

It's pretty wild to be that focused at such an early age. But it is, there's, it's something fun about those kind of, like, I'll show you bitch stories. Yeah.

Like, I could have taken that and been like, I could have gone the other direction with that comment, you know.

Right. You could have said, oh, my God, I don't want to be a loser. I don't want to be homeless.

Yeah.

Like, okay, she's right. And she's an adult, so she must know.

Right.

But, yeah. I did the opposite.

It gave me a fire.

But you get older and you realize, like, there's a lot of people that are teaching. They're just teaching because they need a teacher. It's not because, like, we found this magical person who's really good at educating children, really good at, like, shaping their minds and their futures. No.

Yeah. There's some good teachers.

There's a lot of them.

I had some really good teachers, but she was not one of them.

It's hard to find someone that's really good at a job that doesn't pay very well. It is. That's part of the problem.

That is part of the problem.

It's almost like you would think that if the future of humanity is very important, one of the most important things would be education. So one of the most important things would be finding the best teachers. And how would you do that? You would pay them really well.

Yeah.

Like if we really cared about the future of Earth, we would spend a ton of money making sure that these teachers are really well-educated and that they really understand psychology, they really understand how to motivate children.

You would think. Yeah. That would make a lot of sense.

Right. It's so odd how intelligent and capable and innovative we are and yet so fucking foolish at the same time that we just allow that generation after generation. Shitty teachers not getting paid, good teachers not getting rewarded, you know, and then they retire and they're like, what was that all for?

Yeah.

Nobody cared. Nobody appreciated what I was doing. You have to fight for your pension. like the whole system is so messed up but the education system is so crazy yeah because i mean essentially i mean when you go down the tinfoil hat road it was essentially designed to make factory workers i mean you know there wasn't really formal schooling like we have now where children go at an early age and show up and you know and leave their parents all day that's like a fairly recent thing in human history and the reason why they got people really early is because that's how you can brainwash them right you get kids when they're 14 15 years old they kind of already have their own view of the world it's hard to shape them but you get those little five-year-olds six-year-olds and then if you get preschool you know because a lot of people have to work you know parents both parents work so then you can get the kids real early and then you can make

little workers out of them like walking a single file line and yeah it's like control everything

sit in class sit straight ahead pledge allegiance yeah and use your hand if you can't pay attention you must have a disease so we're going to give you some medication exactly yeah and then you're like i probably should have had some of that medication to be honest probably not no no uh i i definitely

think i'm an undiagnosed adhd case but i feel like almost everybody is well anybody that's

any good at anything i we had this conversation yesterday with my friend eric and i was like i think it's a fucking superpower yeah i really do i i don't think it's negative at all yeah there's a lot of shit i can't pay attention to if it's boring right if it's boring i check in but then

do you have like super hyper focus on things that you're obsessed with right oh yeah like i don't

need to sleep yeah like i could stay up for days if something is really interesting if i get focused which is why i have to stay away from video games and stuff like that oh yeah you just lock in sucked in for hours yeah it's a problem yeah but but it's not just video games like anything that i really love but things that i i'm not interested in it's like i can't absorb it it just goes in and that's what high school was like for me it was like i'd be in class i'd be like this is torture but then i'd find something i really loved and i'd be like fully locked in yeah it took a while for me to because i just thought i was going to be a loser i'm like clearly i can never hold a job i'm not i can't take direction i'm not i can't pay attention like something wrong with me like i'm not i'm just going to be one of those people that's just kind of a fringe person that's never you know never fits in anywhere i'm like okay this is who i am i'll just get some weird odd jobs to feed myself with like this literally how i was thinking about my future and look at you now well i got lucky i found some things that are unconventional but there's so many children out there that are told like hey music isn't a career you know hey you know whatever acting writing books whatever it is comedy somebody is there telling you because they didn't do it that you can't do it yeah yep it's a bummer yeah like i was an artist when i was young um i wanted to be a comic book illustrator when i was really young and i had one shitty high school art teacher who was just such a twat he was so bad and i just i quit art my senior year i was like i don't want to go to this guy's fucking class like because it wasn't a big high school and he was the only art teacher so i quit what what did he do he was just negative oh he was like you can't because i just wanted to draw what i wanted to draw you know and i was into comic book stuff like conan the barbarian

and superheroes and stuff like that and he was like you're not going to make a living doing that you're most likely going to have to do like advertisements for like diapers like diaper ads and i was like fucking diaper ad like that's his explanation that he used diaper ads and i would look at him and he just looked like he looked depressed he was like this skinny guy with a

pot belly and well he's probably an artist that didn't make it as an artist and he had to become

an art teacher instead exactly so he's like bitter and yeah well we realized that too when we looked it as actual art we're like huh i just ain't very good not so inspired there's not a lot of fire in that belly you know he's just a boring dude who's just like depressed and sad and he probably drank a lot we see a skinny person with a big belly usually that's like booze yeah this episode is brought to you by armra every week there's some new wellness hack that people swear by and after a while, you start thinking, why do we think we can just outsmart our bodies? That's why Armra colostrum caught my attention. It's something the body already recognizes and has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff, immunity, metabolism, etc. I first noticed it working around training, especially workout recovery. Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this. If If you want to try, Armra is offering my listeners 30% off plus two free gifts. Go to armra.com slash rogan.

I mean, there's a lot of people like that, even in the music industry. I feel like a lot of the experts in the game are just people who were artists and didn't make it, and now they're bitter, and then they try to tell you how everything should go or how you should do everything.

Oh, yeah.

That got me for a while.

when i was really young and i feel like those people are like weights that you have to carry you know you build up resistance you build up strength from dealing with those bullshit people because they're stupid ideas they get they actually get in your head and you have to

wrestle with them for sure especially when you're super young like i was when i first moved to la i

was 17 whoa by yourself yeah whoa yeah that's crazy and i was like very green small town midwest

girl whoa just dropped in la and like and really pretty that's a terrible combination oh it was

weird really pretty 17 it was weird as midwest oh god yeah look at you now shaved head tattoo on it yep yeah you came out on the other end good though but isn't it true though that like like those kind of experiences like experiencing like oddity and uncertainty and just like the the weirdness of like moving to a place like LA when you're 17 like when you get through it on the other end you're a different person you're a stronger person for sure I mean every experience

makes you stronger right so yeah I just threw myself into this crazy mix in LA and it was culture shock like so what year was this when you moved to LA um so I was 17 so and I was in the graduate I should have been in the graduating class of 2004 so so somewhere around 2003 2003 2004 yeah yeah yeah and I lived with um the guitar player from culture club really Roy Hay wow yeah he had a house in venice and i crashed on on his couch and it was wild wild boy george did you hang out with boy george no never no he wasn't there you ever meet him guitar player on the phone oh no yeah it was wild there was a murder next door the first month i moved in yeah there's like a bloody mattress in the little alleyway between the houses and they taped they caution taped off all the houses and they had to question us about like did we hear screaming and so i was just like sitting there on the steps um not allowed to leave while they were taking the body out and then the coroner after he put the body in the truck he came and sat next to me on the steps and started like hitting on me he was like he was like you're a very beautiful girl i'm like you were just touching a dead body this is so weird where am i oh god that's crazy yeah

welcome to la yeah you got over that dead body real quick yeah hey where are you from yeah Fucking blood in his fingernails.

Yeah. Gross.

Wow. That's a movie. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. la in 2003 was still okay yeah it was like not bad you know it was still traffic and everything but it hadn't gone completely sideways like it is now it's so weird when i go back i'm like this is unrecognizable it doesn't seem like the same place every sign has a for every building has a for lease sign on it it's like this is nuts like it's hard to believe that this is that you're like when you see things like detroit did you ever see that movie roger and me it's a great movie it's uh michael moore and it's all about the collapse of the detroit um automotive industry and how they moved all the plants to mexico and um when they did that the entire economy of detroit and flint michigan and all these areas just collapsed like tens of hundreds of thousands of people out of work instantaneously with no prospects the industry was gone and it's a horrific this depiction of what can happen when greedy people decide that they'll they'll completely sabotage an entire city so they can make you know x amount more dollars and move all the factories to places where you can pay people a dollar a day or whatever the fuck they pay them and um you know i had seen that but i was like oh that was you know 1980s or 1960s whenever when the when when the the place was booming like detroit was at one point in time i think the third richest city in the world well yeah see if that's true i appreciate that's true but um it was all just because the automobile manufacturing i mean everything was made there for chevy chrysler all of our big cars and it's just gone like a ghost town like a ghost town and you know and when i visited detroit to work i'd be like wow this is crazy you see trees growing through the middle of houses the houses are collapsed and like literally nobody took care of the house it was abandoned so trees grow through the roofs and they're reclaiming these homes you see you go by these gigantic like buildings like industrial buildings all the windows are broken yeah everything no reliable historical source shows detroit as the third richest city in the world the common claim is actually that detroit was the richest city in the world or at least the u.s was one of the highest living standards around 1950s not third Oh, so it was the richest? Whoa. That's the common claim of what it actually was. Very high, medium household income, around 20% above U.S. average, and it's all because of the automotive industry. One of the highest homeownership rates in the country.

Because of this, many commentators and locals' histories describe Detroit as the wealthiest city in the U.S. and by some accounts having the highest standard of living in the world in that era. articles and tours about detroit repeatedly referred to it as the wealthiest city in the world in the 1950s not as the third wealthiest so is that true then that it was the wealthiest city in the world tours about detroit's history uh the third richest city in the world line seems to come from its memes social posts okay these posts are often mixed or exaggeration of real facts detroit truly was exceptionally rich by u.s standards but rankings like third in the world are not backed by clear clearly documented global per capita income comparisons from that period well so it was rich it was very wealthy very wealthy either way and when you think about the rest of the world you know like you know people love to use that term the one percent like the top one percent do you know what that is like for the world no no what is it thirty four thousand dollars no freaking way yeah thirty four thousand dollars is the top one percent of earth that's crazy crazy that's crazy what is it for the u.s one percent if i had a guess let's guess um i bet it's like five hundred thousand dollars a year do you think what do you think it is 250 250 what do you think it is jimmy that's my guess i don't know though 150 150 top one percent yeah wow all right let's oh that's your guess throw that in perplexity i was guessing i didn't want to look throw that sucker in perplexity what did i say a half a million top one percent of the u.s 700 000 yeah you're the closest 700 to 800 000 or more depending on the data source in a year that's pretty crazy

So for the United States, $790,000 per year, most analysis. And then for the rest of the world, $34,000.

Wow.

Crazy.

That's wild.

That's wild. Yeah. That's capitalism. Yeah. But I bet there's probably some truth to in order for the United States to have such a high income. these other countries have to get fucked over. Globally, you only need an annual income on the order of 60,000 to 70,000 to be in the top 1%. Oh, it used to be 34,000.

I mean, I'm sure it fluctuates.

One widely cited analysis found that in 2012, annual income of 50,000 was enough to be in the global 1%. So where does that 34,000 come from?

It was a meme that was going around, too.

Oh, fucking memes.

It might have been kind of true, but again, yeah, memes. I just saw it repeated by someone very intelligent. I've looked it up before, but I think it was a meme. Okay. I'll look it up again and see what it says.

Either way.

I get those memes get me all the time. I'm like, babe, look at this. And then you go to the comments and it's like all fake.

Yeah, there's a lot of that. But, you know, that's the dirty thing about what they did with Detroit. Like, they decided that they'll take advantage of these people that are ultra poor, that are willing to work with. And it's not just that they get paid a dollar a day or whatever they get paid. There's no health care. There's no benefits. There's no retirement. There's no dental. There's no nothing. You just get that money and then figure it out on your own. And then, you know, you buy a Ford car and you think it's made in America. Commonly repeated claim, the annual income, about $34,000 U.S., puts you in the top 1% of the world. But this comes from rough, older viral estimates. It's not based on current, rigorous global data. More careful tools and data sets now suggest that $34,000 places you well above the global median, but likely closer to roughly the top 5% to 10% worldwide, rather than the top 1%. Okay, so it appears in social posts.

But $60,000 is still like...

Right, you're barely getting by. Yeah. If you make $50,000 in America, like, you're fucking struggling. Yeah. Unless you're super young. You don't have any responsibilities. And where they pay teachers? That's a good question. Like, what's the average public school teacher salary in America? Let's guess. You think it's like 60 grand?

I think it's about that.

I bet it's about that. Yeah.

I had to guess. Might be less, actually.

What is it? Dun, dun, dun. Seventy four thousand public school teachers now average seventy four thousand to seventy five thousand dollars per year. So that's like, you know, you're OK. Depends on where you live. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you live in New York, you're fucked. Yeah. If you live in New York, you live in a box. Yeah. Yeah.

That's pretty good for Wisconsin.

OK. State averages lowest paying states to above ninety thousand dollars in the highest paying ones like California and New York. So, California and New York, $90,000. Oh, starting teacher pays significantly lower than the overall average. National estimate, the average starting teacher salary of about $48,000. Wow. Meaning it takes years of experience and often advanced degrees to reach or exceed that $74,000 average. So, if you get, like, really intelligent people, even if they love children, they're like, I can't do this. I can't live like this.

Yeah.

You start off at $48,000 a year. That's fucking bonkers. That's not even $1,000 a week. And then you have taxes. And then you have an apartment. And then you have food. And then you have a car.

Kids.

Ugh.

Yeah.

Ugh. Ugh.

How do people do it?

Well, it's just weird that we put our priorities in strange places. Like the amount of money that goes through, you know, various corporations and NGOs and the amount of loans that all this different fucking shit that where our tax dollars go. And you look at that and you're like that seems so short sighted.

Very.

Yeah. No politician runs on that. No politicians like we need to really find the best teachers and pay them the most amount of money that we can afford to make sure that we get the best and the brightest. Everybody's like, fuck you. It's weird.

Yeah, it is.

People are strange.

Yeah. I wish you could like check boxes of where you want your tax dollars to go.

100%. Yeah.

I want it to go to education or whatever.

Yeah. Imagine if that was an option, if when you voted, you could actually vote on where your taxes went.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, not even voted. It should be actually individually. He might have to pee. He's acting in a... Let him out. Yeah. Let him out. Because generally, he would be chilling by now. And when he huffs like that, he's usually trying to let you know something. Yeah. like that's what he does when he has to eat he huffs he comes around he's like i get it i go chill out bro my dog does that when she senses something outside

like a coyote or something she starts huffing well you guys were saying you have a one of them giant caucasian shepherds yeah it's a central asian shepherd we have an alibi i guess there's a lot of different like breeds under the central asian shepherd they're all herding dogs right

they like protect it's a protection yeah livestock wolves yeah pull up the image of an alibi dog just google wolf crusher is that what they call them yeah how much does it weigh she's actually

on the smaller side she's like 105 pounds or something oh that is smaller but she her head is so massive they get they get really big that one can't be real but they are massive like

oh so that's what she looks like yeah pretty much she's all white but those dogs are great for just like keeping track of the property yeah look at that image this is wolf crutcher in the bottom the bottom right there all right go to the left right left of the wolf grinder thing yeah that that one right there so that i think is like a turkish

kangal um which is i think the next dog we're gonna get because we need another one um our our alibi nala she i'm just like such an animal lover so she really should be outside living on the ranch but she sleeps in bed so i need an outside dog that's actually watching the livestock because this past couple weeks we lost um 12 chickens and four sheep to what coyotes

wow where do you live napa napa valley wow you have that many coyotes out there oh they are

invading our property right now it's been the last few weeks have been really rough

once they know that there's food there yeah it's very once they taste the blood they come back

every night this episode is brought to you by netflix the four seasons is back for season two starring tina fey will forte coleman domingo marco calvani carrie kenny silver and erica henningson after a difficult year your favorite group of friends continues their tradition of vacationing together now with a baby in tow from the jersey shore to upstate new york and italy their getaways are sure to take unexpected turns where comedy ensues watch the four seasons may 28th, only on Netflix.

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Yeah, I lost all my chickens in California.

Yeah.

We lost a couple of them every now and then. I had a dog. His name is Johnny Cash, and he was a Mastiff, and he was a sweetheart of a dog, but he was huge. He was like 140 pounds, solid muscle, and these coyotes made friends with him, and so they would come by the fence and hang out with him, and then eventually he got like accustomed to them and then one day the pool guy accidentally left the gate open and so he went into the area where the chicken coop is the chicken coop was like completely protected but we had one of our chickens was brooding do you know yeah yeah okay of course you do so um when you take chickens when they're brooding you have to take them away from the other chickens and you put them in a smaller coop and they have to perch so if they perch then they don't think that they're sitting on an egg and then they get over it after a while yeah and the coyote tricked johnny into smashing that little chicken coop so that he can get the chicken what do you mean i don't know how this motherfucker did it but it couldn't break down the chicken coop because it was only like 30 pounds

And so it was over there with Johnny.

Thank you.

And all of a sudden, me and my wife and our kids were playing some sort of a, like, Monopoly or something in the living room. And someone yells, coyote. And one of my kids yelled, coyote. And we see the coyote running across the backyard with the chicken in its mouth and then leaps onto the top of the fence. I thought we had, like, this fence that was probably, like, six feet tall or something like that, like, wrought iron fence. I'm like, I don't keep the coyotes out. No, it leapt like a ballerina, like a gymnast, toes to the top of the fence and then off with the chicken in its mouth. And part of me was like so impressed that it did that. I wasn't even mad. But I was like, what the fuck? I was like, how did it get that? So we go outside and there's Johnny standing there in front of this destroyed chicken coop, which clearly he did.

Yeah, because the coyote couldn't have done that.

And so then he realized that chickens are to be killed.

Oh, no.

And so someone left the gate open again, and he decided to just go right through the big chicken coop, and he killed nine of them before one of my daughters was screaming, Johnny's in the chicken coop. No. And, yeah, he made a mess out of it.

That's awful.

Well, he didn't know.

I know, but my chickens are like my pets. I like snuggle with them and stuff

We lost one to a bobcat last week

Yeah we had some bobcats take some of ours too

And we lost one to a fox We lost one to a fox Like a couple weeks ago

Do you free range your chickens? You let them out of the coop every day?

Yeah they get out of the coop and then we bring them in at night But you know fucking animals They figure it out Yeah so like last week

Because we let the chickens out Every morning It was 6.30 in the morning and this coyote came and killed 12 like back to back just one coyote well on the cameras that's we only saw one wow yeah so it was like surplus killing yeah thrill killing well they

don't they kill and then they leave them there and then they go back and get them later you know they do that with cats you know i mean mountain lions do that for sure but um yeah it was weird

And he just killed them all and then took, like, a few of them with him, left some of them.

Motherfuckers.

It was awful. I was broken because it took my favorite chicken, and her name was Big Cheeks. She was the sweetest. She would, like, come like a dog. You could, like, call her name, and she would come to you.

Do you eat chicken?

Yeah. Not my chickens.

I don't eat my chickens either, but it's always weird because my wife treats the chickens like they're little babies. He's like, hey, girls, hey, girls. She takes care of them and all that stuff, and then we'll be eating chicken.

Yeah.

It's odd.

Yeah.

It's odd.

I mean, we have cows, too, and I eat beef.

Do you eat your cows?

Well, they're not technically our cows, so we have, like, an arrangement with a cattle guy, and he just uses our property to graze them. Okay. Because we need the cows because we have a biodynamic vineyard. and so we use the cows in the vineyard um like for a few months out of the year just because it creates like a great ecosystem and also like their footprints make little puddles and the water gathers because we're also dry farmed and so what's that mean we don't water our grapes really yeah so um why is that yeah i'm not the wine expert but i think it's because uh you get like a better flavor profile if you like it's more concentrated if you don't like overload them with water um and also it makes the vines struggle in a good way so it makes them reach deeper like the the roots reach deeper into the ground and so you get more like flavor i guess and so this is your own wine so we don't make the wine we sell the grapes to um i think we have five different winemakers now they're all doing single estate uh wines from our property um so they're not blending it with anything so you can drink the wine from our property but it's not our label because I don't want to go out there and sell wine and make people taste my wine. And I don't want to go down that whole marketing. It's like I have a whole other job. I don't need that one. We just handle the farming.

That's cool, though. If somebody wanted to buy wine from your property, like what are the wines?

Well, our property is called Glass Rock. And so Pilcro Glass Rock, Tansy Glass Rock.

Oh, so they all say Glass Rock based on the farm?

They have like a, their brand name.

or whatever and then underneath it'll say like the vineyard site so if you get it from a glass rock i'm gonna buy some wine from your farm oh i'll send you some do you like wine i do oh i do i like wine okay i'm gonna just mail you a package of all of the wines from our property okay cool um it's all cabernet but we're taking like an old world approach to it because napa cabs are like super powerful tons of alcohol and that's not really my style i like like french and italian wines usually and so all the winemakers we're working with are taking that approach and so we're picking a little bit earlier lower sugars lower alcohol it's really delicious delicate beautiful wine how did you get involved in this um well i got really into wine like in my 20s and then um i took a trip to napa for a birthday and it's so beautiful there have you been to napa oh yeah it's gorgeous so i just like fell in love with the area and then um i met the love of my life at the grocery store there as i was buying a watermelon and he asked if he could carry my for me and that was his pickup line um i actually turned better than a corner i turned him down though i said no yeah um but we um carlo mondavi is his best friend uh do you know mondavi mondavi wines yeah yeah so he's grandson of robert mondavi um and so they're like best friends and carlo i was living in park city utah at the time and carlo had a house in my neighborhood so that was like our mutual connection friend um and so i would just come to napa to visit carlo and he would teach me about all the wine stuff and um and that's how i met elliot when we were at the grocery store and uh then a year later we got together officially we just kind of like kept in touch i was married at the time he was in a relationship so it was very dramatic but long story short it was very dramatic turned into a crazy divorce five-year lawsuit all this crazy shit um but anyway those are fun yeah it was fantastic so then i um moved to napa and moved in with elliot um a year after we met and so then we but we lived in saint helena which is like a town up the valley from from napa proper and um it was like a 400 acre ranch out in the middle of nowhere um and we had like a 400 square foot house like a little tiny cabin basically that we lived and after a while like getting cats and stuff i was like this is really small and i have like

i have to make music i have to record and like having a studio in a 400 square foot house it was just you know so then we ended up um buying this house down in in napa and we bought it for the house but there was a vineyard there and so we're like we got to figure out what to do with the vineyard and it was conventionally farmed up to that point um but we're actually meaning like irrigated like irrigated they used pesticides like you know like pretty much most of the vineyards you know yeah and but we're very all about organic and everything great too because

one of the things that we were reading the other day was about glyphosate in california wines and they tested a bunch of california wines and all of them yeah had glyphosate in it yeah so we don't

use any of that that's awesome yeah we're very anti so we transformed the vineyard into this

biodynamic organically farmed um did you know how to do that before that or did you read books how

did you find out how to do it no we hired a farmer for a while um from france that that was his like forte basically um so we transformed the vineyard and then now elliot's out there doing a lot of the farming obviously we have help um it's because we have like something like nine acres planted a vineyard um and so we have help but um he's out there running the tractors and stuff wow yeah he's he's always done he's always done like a lot of like tractor work um but not ever in a vineyard so it's it's all new to us but it's fun that let that life of like being on a piece

of land and growing something there and like living with animals that is like the romantic life that everybody thinks about it really is is it that cool

yeah it's awesome you gotta come

I think you'll love it it sounds amazing I want to do that I've thought about that many times like buying a ranch living on a ranch it's just like i get terrified of like adding one more thing to my life that will probably push out some things or eat up time i just don't know where i'm getting that time from that's the only hesitation that i have you just hire help yeah but then you have to talk to them and you have to deal with that yeah you have to manage it all you have to deal with like interpersonal drama between the help i'm like mike's a piece of shit let me tell you like oh fuck you know what i mean yeah like it's

worth it though honestly it really is it's so peaceful like especially being in the industry i'm in going out and like touring and just being in big cities and then coming home to this like peaceful serene ranch life it's yeah it's the perfect balance yeah well that is probably the

key to staying sane as a performer like having a balance i think so because so many of them just fucking just stay on the road and you you kind of like lose your roots you lose your grounding

uh-huh you're just you're always well and for me it like living in la really ruined my creativity how so um i think a lot of it was like i'm i have a tendency to like give everybody too much power so like all these so-called experts like listening to their opinions about what i was doing um just got in my head and so um removing myself being able to remove myself from those characters and personalities telling me what they thought i should be doing like writing about singing about dressing whatever um i just i need to like have open spaces to really hear my own inner voice and like my gut you know um so i left la when i was 23 and i moved up to oregon for a while lived in a cabin by yourself yeah really how'd you find it um well i had i'd been on tour and I was playing keyboards and singing backups for somebody else so I can back up a little bit so I got my first record deal when I was um 18 or something and put out an album that was with uh Warner Brothers Lincoln Park signed me um and I was going by the name Holly Brooke at the time that's my first and middle name and so I I put out an album through that and it completely like flopped and I went broke and you know LA is so expensive and I had spent all my college savings to move out to LA and make demos and everything so I had nothing left and um so then I had taken for the first time in my life I had to get some jobs like not just performing so I worked in barnes and noble um i taught gymnastics and i edited porn and then edited porn whoa

that was a great experience that's gotta be a weird it was weird well how did you take that job first of all how did you even find out about that job well it was a craigslist ad and

And it was just like, we need video editors. And I was like, oh, I can figure that out. Because I edit in Pro Tools and stuff, music. So it can't be that hard. And they said they would train. So I showed up to the interview in a suit. And they were like, so you know this is adult content? Because it didn't say that in the ad.

That's how they brought it up? You know this is adult content? Yeah. How the fuck would you know?

And they're like, are you cool with that? I was like, I guess so, because I need the job. And so I just took it. And it was a nine to five, literally just looking at like the most disgusting shit you can imagine. Like two girls, one cup has got nothing on what I saw. Really? Yeah.

So it was like hardcore.

Hardcore porn. And it was like, it wasn't editing feature films. It was taking like a feature film and then cutting out all the highlights. so that I could make, like, basically reels or, like, you know, it wasn't Instagram, but basically, like, these little clips that people would search and find, like, a comm shot or, like, a cream pie or whatever search term they would use to find this specific little clip. And so I would put together these little clips and then tag it with all the search terms somebody would use to find it. That was the job. And so it was all just, like, watch the whole film and pick out all the most disgusting moments you can find. and turn that into a clip um and then i started getting this thing called the tetris effect have you heard of that no so like if you play tetris for too long you start seeing like the shapes falling you hallucinate basically so you'll just like be making dinner or whatever and you're just like hallucinating like the tetris shapes but i was hallucinating like gaping buttholes and oh my god and so how long did you do that job i only lasted two weeks but it was the best paying job out of all of them that i had because i got paid by how many clips i got done in a certain amount of time and so i was making like 30 bucks an hour which is great for a high school dropout you know um and so it was good money but i um with the tetris effect thing happening to me um there was like a a light socket over my bed that i had taken the light bulb out of because it was too bright and every night when i fell asleep i would like stare at that and see a gaping butthole i was just like this is not healthy like this is can't be good for me to continue doing you know no and then i also simultaneously got offered to be a keyboardist for this other singer duncan chic he's like a 90s he had a song called barely breathing in the 90s um and i was a fan and so i was like well that sounds like a better job you know definitely and that's music at least so i went on tour with him for a while um i don't know if it was like a year or two but the whole time i was just like i wish i was making my own music and singing my own music you know it started really eating at me being like the backup musician and so um i was like journaling a lot on tour and i wrote i just want a cabin in the woods where i and set up my studio and be away from all these people and um basically i manifested the cabin because like six months after i wrote that in my journal my mom called me and she was like

my friend has this property in oregon and she has a cabin and she's willing to let you live there for free um you just have to work in her art gallery selling art like twice a week i was like that sounds perfect wow so that's what i did that's how you wound up in oregon so that's how i wound up in oregon what part of oregon it's the southern coast um it was in the middle of nowhere but it's basically near bandon do you know bandon dunes golf courses no have you heard of that no um it's a really famous golf course but um it was kind of near there and i'm i lived there for like six months um set up my studio kind of like had to rediscover my love for music and fall back in love with it because I had like writer's block and I was really depressed I had also just before that broke up with my boyfriend at the time and was my heart was broken and it was just like I I was a mess. But my cabin was this really small one-room cabin with one light bulb, and there was no bathroom in it. There was a bathroom outside. And so I had to, like, walk in the middle of the night. If I had to pee, I had to walk to the bathroom, and I was, like, terrified. Where was the bathroom? Was it an outhouse? No, it had a flushing toilet and a shower. But it was, like, a standalone? But it was separate from the cabin. and like down a path by itself yeah just a bathroom yeah i don't know well because the cabin was like an old fire lookout that they turned into a cabin so it didn't have like plumbing or something so they like add i don't know but it was really beautiful and it was also at the top of a sand dune so i couldn't drive up to it so i had to park down the hill and hike to it how far was the hike like a quarter mile every day yeah yeah and so and i didn't have like internet or anything up there um wow but it was great but i was terrified of mountain lions the whole time and so i would like you know walking up that hill at night if i came home from whatever um i had my flashlight and was like looking all directions like and i actually made a mask to wear on the back of my head because apparently like eye contact with a mountain lion like they won't attack and so they'll because they attack you from behind so like wear a mask on the back of my head whoa that's who told you how to do that i don't know google there's um i don't know if it's real, but I did it. It's real for tigers. There's a group of people that work for the government in the Sundarbans. So the Sundarbans is this area in India that's notorious for tigers eating people.

And apparently over the—let's just Google this number because I'll fuck this up too. I think over the last 200 years, something insane like 300,000 people have been killed by tigers.

What?

In this area. Yeah.

That's insane.

Yeah. Well, there's a lot of villages there and then there's also typhoons. And apparently when these storms happen, sometimes people die and they wind up in the river and, you know, they get washed away. And the tigers apparently developed a taste for human. And then there's also this thought about the water. The water is not fresh. It's brackish. So the water has a high salt content in it, but they still drink it because it's the only salt water. So they're probably constantly irritated. The Sundarbans, usually prone to attacking, sometimes eating humans, causing dozens of deaths every year. But not every tiger there is a man eater. Aw, sweet. Historical reports suggest Sundarbans tigers regularly killed 50 to 60 people per year, with some estimates over 100. especially including unreported cases most recent expert estimates put the average about 22 to 23 human deaths per year in the sundar bands far lower than the popular perception well there's like clusters of attack oh yeah here it is local news has reported clusters of attacks multiple fishermen and crab catchers killed within a month showing that risk can spike in certain areas or seasons um i had a bit in my 2009 comedy special about this attack that happened in the cinder bands where there was four guys in a boat and this uh tiger swam out to the boat killed a guy dragged him to shore dropped his body off jumped back in the water swam to the boat killed another guy jumped back in the water did it with three guys before he got tired and the last guy just fucking shit in his pants on the boat by himself. One guy lived. So these are the people that would walk around with these masks on the back of their heads. Oh, wow.

Yeah. So, I did the right

thing. Yeah, you did the right thing. Well, at least for tigers. But there's...

I mean, all cats. Isn't that crazy?

These people all living around there. These are honey collectors in the Sundarbans to prevent tiger attacks. Like, you gotta know there's a lot of tiger attacks when you're wearing a fucking mask around your head when you're going to work. whoo yeah that's creepy yeah fucking scary it's a crazy way to got to die too you know especially a tiger it's probably pretty quick though i guess once they get a hold of you

it's just smush to get the back of your neck yeah i mean it probably happens fast all right

yeah mountain lion probably take a little longer i don't know yeah probably 20 minutes 15 depending on how much you scream.

Yeah. We've had to deal with those, too.

Did you have a gun or anything when you were up there?

No.

No? Did you think about getting one?

No, I didn't, actually. I had an axe.

It's better than nothing.

I was just chopping wood because I had a little wood stove.

But if you were really afraid of mountain lions, how come you didn't get a gun?

I don't know. I didn't even think about it. I don't know why.

Wow. That would be the first thing I thought of. There's not a fucking chance in hell I'm walking around there without a gun.

Yeah. I don't think at that point I was into guns yet.

Are you into them now?

Yeah.

Yeah?

We have a gun range in our house.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah. Elliot's very into them. I have a carry permit.

Good for you.

Yeah. Good.

um have you ever seen a big cat in the wild oh yeah a mountain lion yeah what's the biggest one

you saw like a real big one um i don't think the ones i saw were huge they were like 100

maybe 150 the first one i ever saw was just in colorado it won it actually wound up getting one of my dogs and this was uh they've got your dog no yeah yeah i lived in um a place called gold hill that's like north of boulder so it's like uh 3 000 feet above boulder it's fucking beautiful gorgeous i would have stayed there but um um it's very high altitude it's like 8 500 feet above sea level. And my wife got pregnant. And when you are

If you're pregnant at very high altitude and you're not accustomed to that, it's like you have the flu every day. It's horrible. And we wound up going back to L.A. So that was the first one that I saw. And then I saw one in Santa Barbara. I saw one in actually in Montecito. We were driving, and I saw this thing running across the road. I was like, oh, is that a coyote? And then I saw the tail.

Yeah, the tail's the giveaway.

And I was like, oh, it's a fucking mountain lion. Like, that's wild. But that one wasn't even that big. that was like 70 pounds and then uh a couple years ago i was in utah with my friend colton and we were driving around this corner and he goes dude look under that tree look at that cat and we see the glowing eyes of this cat because it was like just starting to get dark out and uh i was probably 30 yards from this thing in the truck with the binoculars just looking at its head its fucking head was massive like a pumpkin like the muscles the mandible muscles were like these things around its head just a crushing machine and these huge forearms that's what i remember about it the most his forearms were massive and it was just sitting there under that tree staring at us and i was in the truck like i wasn't you know we were armed and we were in a truck and i was still shitting my pants like that thing is so big how much do you think it weighed at least 180 pounds maybe 200 it was a big tomcat like that one that we have out front like that like that size wow yeah it was like that one was one my friend adam greentree killed and he uh killed that in colorado and that one they had a depredation permit because it was targeting this rancher's cows and uh they they had tracked it and that day as they were tracking it it had killed one of these cows and just it was still alive they it just gutted it it basically took it down and just started eating its organs while it was still alive yeah that's what they do yeah it was pretty rough yeah they're

monsters we had that we had an issue with mountain lions up at our other property in napa we had sheep and um i was actually on tour with m&m and um got a text from my neighbor that our sheep had had babies on valentine's day and so i was like so excited to get home and take care of these lambs and um i guess one of the the lambs was rejected by the mother and so we had to bottle feed it so which is the best thing ever i love that you know some people think it's like a unnecessary chore to take care of bottle babies but i love it so like three times a day feeding this thing and she became like a dog like she would follow me everywhere she slept on my front porch um her name was valentine i got a tattoo of her actually right here and um but so like a few months later we had had like maybe 10 lambs at that point little babies they're so cute um and like one morning oh well so our the property was like 400 acres and so and our house was so small but we had like other little buildings on the property so I'd set my studio up in one of the other buildings and so I would drive up there it's like a half mile up the driveway and um I was driving one day up to the studio and I saw this mountain lion like crossing our field and I like rushed to get my phone out to take a video of it of course it didn't get a very good shot by the time I got the video and I turned around and went back to the house I was like babe there's a there's mountain lion on the property and i showed him the video and it was like kind of blurry you couldn't really tell and we called um our neighbor and i think the sheriff and showed them the video and everybody was just like well nine times out of ten when people see say they see a mountain lion it's just a bobcat or like whatever and i was like no i know this is a mountain lion like i know what i'm looking at you know i saw the long tail the whole thing and um they didn't know like nobody believed me like it's bigfoot or something yeah like i'm like no i swear it's a it's a mountain lion and elliot believed me um so we went up and took a little hike up the ravine where i'd i'd seen it walk off to and i swear that like the lion must have been tracking us back to the house because it that night we were um because we didn't see it we went up ravine and we didn't see the lion anywhere but we went back home and then that night we were like

uh watching tv and scrolling through instagram or whatever and he showed me this you know how the russians they like become friends with all these crazy animals like bears and whatever so there's like this video of this like russian guy like in bed with his mountain lion like cuddling with it it's always russians i know right they're psycho they are not regular white people no and so he's like he showed me this video and he's like oh i could never kill one of these unless they fucked with my family yeah that next morning i take my coffee out onto the front porch like i always did look down at the sheep pen and i see this mom sheep laying with her baby that's not moving i was like this is something's not right and i go down there and sure enough there's like the fang marks you know the deep uh fang marks in its throat and it's like stomach eaten out and the mom would not leave its side and so i go back to the house and i'm like babe we lost it a lamb to the mountain lion nobody believed that i saw and um so we called fish wildlife and they came out and confirmed that it was a mountain lion kill and so they set up they were um they put traps in our sheet pen and you know to see if we could like trap it and relocate it and um so they stayed on property that night and i can't even remember all the details but basically in the middle of the night we heard this big bang and we thought oh the trap closed and we opened the door and it wasn't that it was like one of our sheep had busted through the fence trying to escape the lion and was standing in our driveway like right in front of the house I was like oh fuck so then Elliot goes down to the sheep pen and he sees the lion and it's like just like those glowing eyes you know and um and then it darts off into the woods and it had killed another lamb and didn't the trap didn't go off and so then the the guys the truckers they came down and they were like okay let's like hunt this thing like take the dogs so they had like six dogs and basically for the next like week tried to get this lion and couldn't like the dogs were getting all mixed up they were like wandering off one direction and then going another direction and they they're like and the trackers were like this has never happened like they usually get it like what what the hell's going on they were the dogs were just getting all confused and um we basically oh and then another night elliot was out there

thinking that he heard the guys whistling but i guess it was the cats whistling so mountain lions whistle do you know about that yeah it's a crazy sound you can probably look it up mountain line whistle i need to hear that yeah um but he heard whistling and he thought it was the trackers like saying like we're here and he like was just standing out there and then 20 minutes go by and the guys aren't there and so then they finally pull up and they're like um or he was like were guys whistling at me and they were like no like did it sound like this and he was like yes and they said that's the lions they they whistle to communicate with each other put the headphones on

so you can hear this oh whoa oh that's in that's to hone ranch that i go to that place that's in california that's outside of bakersfield elk hunted there before that place to hone ranch they had one pond where they set up a camera trap they set up uh trail cameras they found 18 different cats on one pond that's crazy that's not normal oh they have a lot of cats yeah well california doesn't do anything about them they're kind of nuts texas has the complete opposite approach yeah you just shoot them yeah yeah you don't have to have a permit

well we got permits we got permits because they came back and

every night and then they took my valentine and i was like so heartbroken um there was nothing you could do to like lock them up well i tried to bring valentine into the house and put her in a kennel in the kitchen but try sleeping with a screaming lamb it was like not a thing we put her back out and she was fine that night but um the trappers just kept saying no we gotta just leave everything as is and and we'll get them but then like after a week of hunting them and nothing it was like what are we doing like we should move these sheep like i was fighting for that but they were just like no we gotta keep everything as is because if you move them and change the what's going on it'll like the cattle just like maybe not come back for a while but then it'll come back you know and so they're like if we're gonna get this thing we got to leave everything as is but anyway so they um finally got the cat one night i actually had to leave town and do a show and Elliot called me and he actually he actually was the one that shot it but they got the cat and I felt like this huge sense of relief and I came home and I thought everything was fine and we weren't gonna lose any more lambs and then like a few days later I woke up and took my coffee outside and there was a mom sheep dead now and she was dragged under the fence and i was like what the absolute fuck so turns out there was two cats hunting together and that's why the dogs were getting confused and couldn't follow the trail and um i guess like in the spring a lot of times the the moms will like teach their children how to hunt and so they weren't even like eating the lambs they were just killing them um and so it was like basically them learning how to hunt I guess I don't know I don't know but uh we got another permit and we got the second lion and then everything was peaceful but we we went down from like 20 to three sheep oh god yeah it was awful killed 17 sheep holy shit that must be terrifying yeah and I mean I'm like out there I'm scared for myself even living out there and like going into my studio and stuff like

it was really scary and really heartbreaking awful I can imagine 17 is crazy yeah it was

really bad when you shoot the cat do you have to bring it somewhere and then they have to like

register well they took them the the fish and wildlife took the bodies but yeah the dogs you

know treat them and because uh people eat them like they taste good really yeah yeah i had some wouldn't it be kind of like tough because they're like so muscly eat the loin like the like people eat the roasts it's it's like pork yeah my friend steve described it as a superior pork yeah a lot of people eat mountain lion interesting i know it sounds crazy but i'd try it have you ever had bear bear bears good really yeah believe it or not people like uh it depends on what the bear is eating like if you eat a bear that's eating a lot of fish it's going to be kind of funky or if you catch a bear that's been like eating a dead deer for like a couple weeks that's not good you know yeah moose like a dead moose that's does it taste kind of rotten or something yeah it'll smell rotten but if you catch one that's been eating blueberries it's like some of the most delicious meat yeah yeah my friend steve uh ranella he has a show called meat eater and he was uh hunting black bears in alaska over this blueberry patch so he shot this blackberry and he's cooking it and as he's he's butchering it he did it all on camera as he's butchering it like the fat from the bear is purple with like blueberry and so like the flavor of blueberries was in the meat itself.

That's interesting.

He's like, it's the most insane meat. It's delicious.

I'd try that.

Yeah, it's good.

I like elk. Elk is my favorite.

Where do you guys live? You live in Napa? When are you guys going back?

Tomorrow. No, tonight.

I've got some. I'll give you some. Really? Yeah, I got a freezer bag. I have a commercial freezer out here. Oh, sick. With some elk.

I'll hook you up. Let's go. Let's go. No, it's by far my favorite meat.

Oh, it's delicious. The best. It's the best for you, too. Like, you feel different when you eat it. you're like oh it's like it's got so much nutrients in it you've done the axis deer

hunting and why we want to do that so bad oh it's it's first of all

If you use a rifle, it's 100% guaranteed. Really? Like, you can't not get a deer. There's so many of them. I mean, you have to kill them. On Lanai in particular, there's 30,000 deer and 3,000 people. Holy shit. Yeah. And so in Lanai, you can actually stay at the Four Seasons. So you stay at this, like, amazing resort, and then you go hunt. That's awesome. Yeah. So I went with, well, we've gone a few years, but i went with a whole group of friends one time it was like seven of us we went there and we we had the best time we hunted and then we ate axis deer and it's like you're you're overlooking the oceans this gorgeous paradise yeah that sounds like a great bow hunting deer but there that's a deer that evolved around tigers and they are so fast like unbelievably fast like if you shoot at one that's 30 yards away and it hears that the bow go off it'll be out of the way before the arrow gets to it they do what's called jumping the string they just duck down and take off it's not like they know an arrow's coming at them they just know to run and the way they run is they load up their muscles by getting low and then springing forward but they do it so fast that okay 30 40 yards let's say 40 yards so 40 yards you've got an arrow that's going 290 feet a second and from the sound of the bow going off the pop of the bowing bow going off they're gone yeah which is insane can you can you hunt with rifle out there oh yeah okay oh yeah that's how they do most of the hunting out okay that we went and uh i went with a bunch of like very experienced bow hunters like top of the food chain bow hunters and we all got axis deer but it was a struggle It's like a lot of them jump the string. We wound up realizing that the best time to go was at night. Not at night, but in the afternoon. Because in the afternoon it's much windier, and so it hides your sound. Because they're just on edge. Because they get hunted 365 days a year. There's no off-season. And they have to hunt them because there's so many of them. You'll, like, driving at night, you'll stop and turn the headlights to a field, and you just see thousands of eyes. Like they're infested, infested with delicious animals, and there's no predators. There's zero predators other than people. So they bring in snipers and people with night vision, and they shoot them at night, and they use headshots. And when you go to, like, the restaurants in the Four Seasons, they serve Axis deer. Oh, that's cool. Oh, it's delicious. It's so good. What is that place, Malibu Farms, I think it is? They have insane venison sliders from Axis deers. They're so good. i mean it's it's one of the most delicious game animals but um when we went we did a podcast from

there and you know we call it podcast from paradise we're all having a good time and because after that 150 different people went the next year and only one of them was successful with a bow oh wow every other one was like fuck this i'm getting a rifle this is ridiculous these things are so fast like but it's an animal that evolved like i said around tigers yeah king kamehameha in hawaii was given axis deer as a gift from uh the leader of india in like the 1800s that's how they got there and then they just took over oh yeah they took over they're everywhere yeah maui has a lot of them too but they also have this is a company called maui nui so like if you love game meat you can actually buy game meat so wild game meat in America you can't sell so if you buy like say if you buy elk like you go to a restaurant you buy elk it's farmed you're getting it from New Zealand oh wow most likely yeah most most I think most of the elk that they serve in restaurants in America is coming from New Zealand because New Zealand's a similar situation no predators and they brought in all these animals and then they're just infested and most of it's probably not even really elk it's probably stag which is super similar anyway but when you get like farm raised elk that's you're probably getting it from somewhere else i mean they probably have some places that are allowed to sell um farm raised elk in america i don't know what which one that would be but wild game like that you hunt you cannot sell because that's uh how they almost went extinct in this country in the turn of the century in the beginning of the i guess like the 1800s the beginning of the 1900s um they brought elk to the point of extinction almost and the same with uh white-tailed deer they because they were market hunting so because no one had refrigerators you'd have to get meat all the time and so they were just all of them wow yeah i didn't know that yeah but in maui you have so many of them and then they set up a company called maui nui and maui nui you can buy bone broth venison bone broth they have like meat sticks and you could buy actual venison and they'll freeze it and then ship it to you so if you want wild game it's like one of the best places and one of the most delicious wild

game too yeah yeah axis deer is delicious yeah we want to do that hunt for sure oh it's a great hunt

yeah because you can't first of all you're in paradise and you you're gonna see them it's not like if you go on an elk hunt like you could be in the mountains for days before you find any elk because you know you got to find out where they are you got to listen for bugles you got to you know you got to glass a lot you gotta look around you might not be successful if you if you bring a rifle to lanai you 100 are going to be successful and you can kill a bunch of them you

know you could and they like package it for you and ship it home to you yeah there's a guy named

bob the butcher shout out to bob he uh he'll butcher them for you and package it for you and all that jazz and um you know if you give it enough time they'll freeze it and uh we actually brought it back to the four seasons and they put it in their commercial freezer they froze it for us and then we you know put it in these big yeti coolers brought it back on the plane nice yeah and you could like literally get a year's supply of your meat in like a few days if you wanted to do that and just eat venison for the rest of the year yeah it's pretty cool yeah we usually try

to get a deer every year up in napa too do you guys go deer hunting well i don't elliot does Elliot does. I help him clean it, though. I've been doing that since I was a little girl. Oh, really? My dad taught me when I was a kid. He hunted a lot, and he would send me on these routes to kick the deer out to him. Oh, okay. So I would do the hiking and kick him out.

Push, yeah.

And then we would all gather. It was usually around Thanksgiving. We'd all gather in the basement and cut the meat up and skin it and all that.

Wow.

So I like doing that part.

Well, that's cool. It's a great way to be connected to what you're eating.

Yeah, exactly.

It's a completely different experience.

You have a different appreciation for it.

Oh, yeah.

You know, than something you just, like, buy at the store or in a restaurant. Like, it's a totally different appreciation.

Oh, 100%. And also, it's like, you know it's organic. It's an actual wild animal. And it's the best life that this animal is ever going to live. And including the best death, because especially if you if you're good with a rifle, if you're accurate, you practice like it's it's dead like that. And it's not like getting its guts eaten out by a mountain line, you know, or anything else that's going to eat it or old age or winter, all the horrible ways that animals die.

Yeah.

You know, their teeth grind down to nothing and they essentially starve to death or.

Oh, yeah.

That guy's rough. it's a hard life yeah so how'd you wind up leaving Oregon um so you walk in oh quarter mile every day by yourself a flashlight trying to avoid being eaten yep how'd you get out of there

well I I figured out that I needed if I needed to find a way to make a living in music and so I reached out to the only person I had left in my corner musically because like at that point i had lost my record deal my lawyer dropped me my manager dropped me um but i was still technically signed to umpg publishing and um so i reached out to my like point person there who i hadn't spoken to in years and i said help me figure out how to make a living in music i gotta figure this out because that's the only thing i really know how to do and i'm a dropout so i can't really get a good job and editing porn yeah and i don't want to do that and so um i met with her in new york i flew to new york and we just sat down had like this long conversation and i had like ever since i was like 13 when i had first heard uh stan by eminem i'd always been like i love that combination of like a pretty you know female vocal with hip-hop and so i'd always wanted to do something like that um and so i said i think i could write hooks for hip-hop songs like that was kind of like my what i told her i wanted to do and um she was like well we just signed this producer named Thank you. Alex the Kid and uh that's kind of like his wheelhouse so you guys should meet and um so I flew back to to Oregon and um she connected us on email and I would go down to the little cafe to get internet and so um I would just I emailed him and he emailed me back some beats that he had just made and um i would just sit there with my headphones in the cafe and like hum little melodies into my computer and and send them back but the first one i did was called love the way you lie and a month after i sent alex that hook uh it was a number one song wow what was that like It was crazy. Going from, like, broke and living in the woods in this cabin and then writing a song that literally took over the world. Yeah, so that's kind of what took me out of Oregon. Because after that, I started getting phone calls, you know, from everybody wanting songs from me. um em had me and alex come out to work on detox for dr dre um and puff daddy wanted a song that's

where coming home came in to play um yeah it was just crazy suddenly i was i went from nobody caring to everybody trying to get a song that's gotta be such an insane experience

to be like what am I doing I'm out in a cabin I gotta go outside to pee I gotta walk a quarter mile to the house you're like completely isolated did you have any friends out there at all yeah I

had a couple friends I made a couple friends when I was out there and then all of a sudden I was

yeah off to the races it was crazy how did you adjust to that I had to be very strange it was

and i also felt so much pressure because like i definitely had a little imposter syndrome when i wrote that song because i was just like that was too easy like it took me 15 minutes to write that hook and i sent it off and suddenly everybody wanted to get a song for me and i was like that must have been a fluke like this is never gonna happen again i'm never gonna write another one like this or whatever um and so so many people were just wanting songs and i felt so much pressure to deliver a hit song every time you know and i was always so hard on myself but it that became even worse um just i would just put way too much pressure on myself i i got invited to do so many songwriting sessions but i at that point like i had pretty much only ever written by myself and so being like thrown in rooms with songwriters and producers and stuff i was so shy um i just felt it was always so hard for me to open up creatively in front of strangers um so i would just like walk out of sessions crying and just be like i suck i i can't do this you know it was hard that was the hardest part for me

just performing in front of a bunch of people just like yeah just studio yeah just trying to

like create hit songs every time i go into a writing session i just felt like there were some such high expectations on what i would deliver and i can't force creativity it's like it just happens or it doesn't you know but i felt like i had to deliver a hit song every time and because i put that pressure on myself it kind of shut down my creativity and it made it really hard for me to do that so then i ended up like just leaving a lot of sessions and feeling like I didn't deserve to be where I was and not good enough.

How'd you get over that?

I didn't really. Yeah. I don't think I ever got over that. I did a lot of these sessions for a while because I felt like I had to, And then I just kind of stopped taking them. I stopped agreeing to do them because it was just too much. It was too hard on me.

So explain these kind of sessions. So you go to a studio with producers and like and they essentially say, OK, let's try to create something. Ready, go. And then you're in there and your creative process is you by yourself, like trying to connect with emotions and thoughts and ideas. and all of a sudden you're around people and also you're a little weirded out.

Because you've been living in a fucking cabin by yourself, you know, and you're editing porn for two weeks. And it's like that.

And I just had this like hit song that was huge, was massive. And I just felt like there was such high expectations on me, you know?

Right.

So it was very hard.

Everybody that I've ever met who's really good has imposter syndrome.

Yeah.

I think it's a part of being genuinely creative because I think like genuinely creative people don't have that kind of weird ego. We're like, yeah, finally, I'm getting mine because some people do have that or they feel like they deserve this. But I feel like at least most genuinely creative people that I've talked to, when something big happens to them, they're like, this is fucking crazy. Like all of my comedian friends, when they start to hit, like when something happens, when they get like a viral clip and then they do a Netflix special or something like that in the beginning, they're like, bro, I'm kind of freaking out. I'm like, we all are. It's okay. Like this is the thing. Like you're going to feel fucking weird. That thing, whatever it is, that imposter syndrome I think is a good thing. I think it's a sign that you have a healthy mind or at least maybe not healthy. maybe that's the right word you have a creative mind you know and that you you're and also everything completely changes you have a hit song all of a sudden out of nowhere number one like what the fuck like that kind of shift in paradigm like that is not normal to get adjusted to you'd have to be a complete psycho to go to be like all right this is perfect this is what i've been waiting for you know yeah because everybody like sees people either on television or you know in you see them in the media and you think that's a different kind of thing than me i'm not i'm not a famous person i'm not popular i'm not successful i'm just me i'm like and then all of a sudden people know who you are and love you and you're like oh my god i'm a fraud yeah oh my god they don't they don't know about the shitty songs i've written exactly they don't know that like

99 of the songs that i write suck and then the one you know i think that's the case with

everything though you know i talk to all my friends that are comics all say the same thing like out of the jokes that they write like 10 of them suck and then one one pops through but the thing is like you just gotta keep cranking keep keep trying to find whatever it is that was the

hard part for me was to keep going and keep trying how would you do it how do you how did you like what is your creative process my creative process um well now a big part of it is not living in LA I have to be out in the middle of nowhere um and I like to be alone in the room even if I'm writing to somebody else's beat or something like that I just like to sit with myself and do it um and i just try to focus on how it makes me feel you know i i spent some time trying to write what i thought other people wanted to hear and i feel like those songs always sucked and so just like letting it flow almost like i'm not writing it like i'm channeling it or something um that's better the songs that like take less effort tend to be the better songs and the songs that i slave over to try to get them perfect and overthink they end up doing nothing john mellencamp told

me he wrote i need a lover that won't drive me crazy in the shower yeah like that done he was just singing i need a lover that won't drive me crazy no it makes total sense i write stuff in

the shower i write stuff when i'm cooking dinner um it's not like go into a studio from this hour to this hour and write a song like it never works for me to do that so it'll just be random like this new album i'm putting out um there's a song called motivation i remember it came to me when i was standing outside the vet's office when my dog was getting surgery on her acl or whatever they call it in dog world um i was just like pacing outside during her surgery and this like song

started coming to me did she have to do that thing where they cut the bone yeah yeah i had dog she had to have both her back legs done that way she blew out brutal the recovery was brutal

it's horrible she was also a puppy so she had like puppy energy and it just we had to sedate

her and it was it was awful yeah and so do you take specific time

to just like sit and try to write or do you just like let ideas come to you i usually just let

ideas come to me i like take a lot of voice notes in my phone um or i'll write down lyric ideas that come to me and then um i need to be better about making time for it because when i do make time to like go in and be creative uh it usually does there's a balance it's like i can't force it But I also can't be lazy and like just avoid it completely, you know, so I try to balance that.

Have you ever read The War of Art?

I started it. I started it.

I have copies out there. I'll give you a copy if you don't have one.

I think I started the book on tape version.

I have a copy of the book. It's a very small book. It's very easy, but it's all about that. And Pressfield was, you know, kind of like an underachiever until he was like 40. And then somewhere along the line, he realized that what he really has to do is be a professional. And so he developed this methodology of like channeling the muse. And instead of thinking of the muse as being, you know, instead of thinking of creativity as being this sort of abstract thing, he thought of it as a thing that you summon like like legitimately show up every day at the same time in front of your computer or your notebook or whatever however you do it and literally say i am here to summon the muse like i'm here respectfully to call upon you for your gifts and if you just show up every day and treat it like that it will work which is a really crazy thought it makes sense yeah yeah do you do it i do it yeah i don't do it every day but when i do it yeah i i just sit there and i don't say i'm summoning the muse like i think he does yeah um what i do is i go here we go i just say here we go i say here we go and then i start typing and a lot of times it's like almost like working out like in the beginning you're like you know you got to warm up you got to get things going you know you get on the bike a little bit crack a sweat start stretching you know I'm typing in the beginning it's just like whoa I fucking suck this is these thoughts are useless this is not oh yeah and I got something yeah and I figured out a way to do it with it is more organic for me because I used to just try to write things that were funny and now what i do is just write i write on a subject like a thing and then i'll let it like if i'm writing about uh whatever fucking global change global warming fucking earthquakes whatever i'm writing about i'll let it shift to what i don't try to stay on subject yeah you let it just yeah it might completely change to something totally different a completely different subject and i just let it and then i just try to just get out of my own way and write as much as possible and then I go over it and try to extract things from that and I take those and I copy and paste them into something else and then I'll expand on that idea like I'll start fresh with this idea and it's it's it's just a numbers game it's just a numbers and time game the amount of numbers the amount of time that you spend thinking about stuff you get these little gifts yeah and that's where the concept of the muse comes from is because it's almost like it's like some sort of a divine entity yeah it feels like that it does feel like that yeah everybody says that whether it's authors or musicians or comedians or anybody creative

they say it feels like it's not even my idea like it just came to me out of nowhere right which is the weirdest thing about the creative process it's not like like a structure you're putting together like a house you know like i know how to do this i lay down the foundation i put up the girders i do the uh-uh it's like this thing like this spiritual weird entity that you're in contact with yeah for sure and it's not you because you're like empty when the ideas come they just like make their way into your head you're like whoa where the fuck did that come but then you're

responding to your emotional like how it makes you feel yeah like reading what you're channeling or listening to it and for me like i focus mostly on that like how is it making me feel is it causing some type of like emotional response you know yeah and then those are the magic moments well

that's why it would have to be so weird to do it in a studio with a bunch of people you don't know

with under pressure yeah for me it doesn't work i don't know how some people are like thrive in that environment i don't know how yeah

I don't get it.

A lot of rappers, they love doing that.

But I think they feed off of each other, you know? And, like, a lot of rappers, they tell me that, like, they're doing it for their boys. So, like, as they're, like, hitting, like, new lines and coming up with new rhymes and new raps, it's like they're fucking around with their friends and, like, having a good time, like, impressing them with, like, strong lines and great bars.

I mean, I've definitely had some moments like that, especially like you can find people you have really good chemistry with. Then it can work. Right. But generally speaking, just going into a room with strangers, it doesn't work for me. But yeah, there are some people that I feel super connected to creatively, and I can do that with them.

Well, I'd imagine everybody's got their own different little process, but it's just a matter of doing something. like make making the time for it and i would imagine also it's like as you get really busy and successful and there's a lot of obligations it's harder and harder to find that still time

well yeah and there's like cycles like right now i'm not writing at all because i'm just in you know album promotion mode and so it's all about like content and all this other stuff so i haven't written a song in a long time so and it's also kind of like a muscle like songwriting for me once i get into a songwriting zone it's like coming like way easier all the time but i have to like warm up to get into it and get back in that headspace and you know warm

up that muscle again that makes sense like marathon running yeah yeah something yeah i think everything's like that yeah you get into like grooves yeah so when you're in the middle of promotion like what is the difference in like do you have ideas that still come to you and you just sort of jot them down and go one day I'll go back to that yeah yeah yeah I just store them um does this feel like um when you're in promotion time does it feel weird like like you got to go

out and sell it and you gotta I don't know about it I enjoy all the different aspects of it you know I love the it's all creative for the most part like even just like making content and filming stuff um it's a it's a art form too so i feel like i'm still like getting my creativity out

it's just not in the songwriting and so it is it like one of those things where in the back of your mind you're like eventually this will come to an end and i'm gonna get back to it and then it starts to like itch at you yeah yeah yeah i get the itch yeah yeah it's time to get back yeah i'm already feeling it are you i'm ready to write again yeah well i would imagine that being in a place like napa where you're like around like peaceful you know beautiful background and you know nature and it's probably like way easier to get in touch with your mind than to be trapped

in manhattan for sure beep beep fuck you you know yeah that's exactly why i've stayed away from

cities yeah i guess everybody has to find their own thing because i have friends who thrive off that shit i have friends who live in new york city they can't live anywhere else they love it

yeah i maybe it's because i grew up in a rural environment you're not broken i think my friends are all broken i think it's a comfort thing because like i grew up in the woods so it feels like home to be out in the middle of nowhere but if i grew up in the city that might feel more comfortable for me and i might be able to hear myself think better there but you know everybody's

different i think everybody who goes to the woods realizes they need it i think it's a vitamin i really do i think it's just like how sunlight gives you vitamin d i think there's something about being in wilderness where you're in tune with all those life forms because it's not as simple as oh there's a bird there's a squirrel no the fucking ground's alive the trees are alive there's energy that all these things have that is being distributed somehow or another in this strange array of of information and and of just life that's all around you that you feel you actually feel when you're out there yeah it's like forest bathing yeah

that's real yeah for sure and it's also there's no fucking cell phone service so i think there's something to that too because the the earth feels cleaner if that makes any sense like when i'm in a place that has no cell phone service i swear there's a subtle difference in the way the world feels it's like a vortex yeah yeah because i think like in this room we have wi-fi we both have phones like i think there's signals that are just out there that we can't you know you can't tune it in and go oh that's a video my friend's sending me you don't do that but there's something about whatever the fuck that stuff is that i think your body recognizes as a like they say it fucks with bees like cell phone signals in particular really fucks with bees and like okay well it fucks with bees i bet it fucks with us too oh i'm sure yeah yeah because it feels like if you're in a place with no cell phone service the world feels different and it's not just because you can't check your phone it's the world the actual the actual air around you feels different yeah i definitely feel that too yeah yeah i think that's how people are supposed to live i think we're doing some weird shit to ourselves you know for sure but the weird shit is cool in a lot of ways you know because it's how we meet each other how we talk to each other you know how we find out

about good balance of it all you know exactly yeah yeah do you have goals yeah what are your

goals like because some people don't some people just enjoy just doing they don't think about like

goals yeah i mean i have like things i want to do before i die what do you want to do um well i want to be better about putting out more music because because i do put so much pressure on myself it's taken me like five years between each album to to make one and put it out because i second i second guess myself all the time and and i think like i put so much pressure on it like this has to be the you know the sound that the mark i leave on the world and this is what i want to be known for i'm like fuck all that just capture a moment in time like what am i feeling right now what vibe am i into and capture that zeitgeist musically and then move on to the next one like it doesn't all have to be cohesive i used to just be like put so much pressure on it being cohesive and having like a certain sound or whatever but now i'm just like okay right like right now this album i'm calling the genre bubble grunge because it's like inspired by the 90s um pop and grunge kind of like combined together um but then the next album i might totally flip it and do something totally different and that's okay like it doesn't all have to be like it can be different i can i can change it up and so i'm i'm my goal in regards to that is uh to put out an album every year instead of every five years that's a big shift it's a big shift but i don't want to look back and just wish i would have released more because i have so much music sitting on hard drives and on a dropbox folder that's never come out because i would like make a bunch of music and then second guess it and start over and start over again it's not good enough it's not good enough i'm like i should have just put everything out i should have just been okay with like you know putting out a bad album or a bad song it's okay

but do you think that making it and putting it out perhaps a part of the creative process is

boiling it down to something that i think so but i think i take that way too far do you think that

that is in part because of the pressure that you experience for your first thing that hits is number one which is a crazy experience yeah and you were really young yeah you know all of a sudden

boom yeah maybe that was part of it just made me like extra hard on myself um but i want to have

more fun and not take it so seriously so how do you plan on doing that how do you plan on having more fun and not taking it so seriously i'm already doing it yeah yeah i think i just turned 40 and i

think that also has something to do with it because i'm just like seeing the end like what am i doing here just like torturing myself with all this pressure and not just like having fun and being creative and throwing it out there you know so i'm already doing that i'm already having more fun that's great

But that is one of the beautiful things that comes with age.

Yeah. Giving less fucks.

Giving less fucks and just accumulating experiences to the point where you recognize, like, the flaws in your past thinking and why I did this and I'm not happy I did that. And you gather enough of those experiences where you get a better map of the territory. Like, oh, I think I get it now.

Yeah.

And then you're really established now, too. So it's like you don't have to be as worried about whether or not, you know.

Yeah.

It's a beautiful thing that comes with age. The not giving a fuck or not, you know, like one of the funniest things to see an old person doesn't give a fuck. Oh, yeah.

Old people who don't give a fuck and just say anything that comes to their mind. It's hilarious.

They're fun. well um thank you for being here it's a lot of fun yeah i enjoyed it enjoyed talking to you and

i really enjoy your music oh thank you can i talk a little bit about the album that i'm putting out absolutely okay it's called wasted potential it's about me wasting my potential um but uh it's a it's an album where i'm telling the story of my like upbringing in small town wisconsin um discovering my sexuality and just like it's like a coming of age story and um it's a part of my story i don't think a lot of people know they mostly know me from working with m&m and all the things i did after that but um i just felt like it was time i think because i turned 40 recently i was like thinking about my childhood a lot and like realizing i didn't appreciate it enough i had a great childhood and so i just wanted to tell that part of my story um kind of for the first time ever so i'm excited to get that out and it's important it was important for me to get it off my chest and out so that i could like finally i was depressed about turning 40 really oh yeah so depressed about it but um i think it's because i didn't i didn't feel like i was like present during my childhood and i mean i was working a lot and so um it was important for me to get it off my chest and be at a point now where i feel like i can accept that i'm 40 and actually enjoy it and so that was the whole gist of the album

well do you really think that you have wasted potential oh yeah really how so

um well when I um made music for my mom growing up it was a completely different lifestyle to now making music in you know LA and the big world of music I didn't realize how much work it would be I didn't realize the grind and uh I think when I first got into it I was kind of lazy about it And because I was like, oh, honestly, I probably should have been a Gen Z because I was just like, fuck this. I don't want to do this, you know. And so a lot of decisions I made in my career, I feel like, you know, it was all my fault. basically all the failures that I've had I realized were my fault for being you know lazy or or not um putting in the effort and and the grind and yeah so I wasted a lot of potential I had so many huge opportunities when I was younger in the music industry and then I I kind of just like was

like this is too much work but is that a part of like a work-life balance yeah i mean that's what

gen z would say right they're all about the work-life balance but in i feel like in my generation the millennials it was all about like work work work work work you know and I wasn't doing that as much so yeah I didn't I didn't feel like like turning 40 I was like I'm not in the place where I thought I'd be I didn't do all the things I wanted to do by this age and I was feeling kind of like a failure

and so do you think that that self-critical mindset though is just one of those things it's just like it's it's actually inherent to anybody that's creative and ambitious like you're always going to be self-critical and that's probably one of the reasons why your music is so good like this idea like it's not good enough it's not good enough like and obsessing over things we only release something every five years but then look at the quality of the song

that you do release that you do love it's like there's a balance in there like a little bit of self-critical a little bit of like i'm not doing enough like it's let it in there but don't believe it you know yeah life is life it's like it's not all you know it's not all like leave a legacy because in the end really it doesn't matter i know you know it's true that's why i'm just That's why I'm trying to have more fun now. That's great. Yeah. Both things. Both things. Listen, your music's awesome. I love it. Thank you. And it was awesome seeing you with Eminem. It was great. Oh, yeah. You came to the show. Yeah. And also, that's how Marshall was named. He was named after him. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. So. So cute. Thank you. Thank you so much. And best of luck with your album, with everything else in the future. This was really cool. I enjoyed it. Me too. All right. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody.