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gentlemen live what's happening good to see you what is up I enjoy your show your show's excellent you guys have a really good MMA show it's really thank you thank you I kind of blew

that yeah how'd you go we can talk about that yeah I got to talk to you guys are not doing anymore i i stepped back away when i went i started uh refereeing again god damn it you

got to go back to doing it you guys are great you guys are a great combination i think i might

what we did is what we what we did is we started doing uh mccarthy mondays because when he went back to refereeing he's not allowed to talk about promotions not allowed to talk about fighters and what's wrong and and the things that possibly you know can make some changes and so we just started mccarthy monday where we just talk about like the joe shilling situation that's something we could talk about, right? So I created a show for him to just only do on Mondays. He created. Nice. Well, it's his input. It was. He created it. It's his input. I was just trying to find ways to keep him involved.

I love that you're refereeing again. We need great referees, but I wish you were out there doing both. It doesn't make sense to me that you can't do both. It's not like you're not going to be a great referee while also still being able to comment objectively about promotions. It's important.

It is important. It's important. Transparency. Where's ever the problem with that?

Exactly.

But you get these people that, oh, no, because you might say something that is going to create a problem. And it's like it's not a problem if it's the truth. It's ridiculous.

I mean, if that was the case, how come I can do it as a commentator? How come all these guys can do it? Because you're the best. Yeah, but I mean, everybody should be able to have a voice, especially referees. If something happens and you're a referee and you could say, here's my perspective, this is why I did what I did. And you have it on a podcast on a regular basis. That's a benefit to everybody.

So that is what I'm trying to create with him. I believe you're right. But what you run into is you run into some issues where the referee says too much and then people come back at him and then the commissions have to answer for it. And then the fighters dig on them. Good. People are talking.

That's how shit gets solved. That's how you don't have, like, one hand down is not a downed opponent anymore. Why? Because we fucking complained forever. 12 to 6 elbows. They're legit again. Except in New Jersey. You see the problem? Yeah. The goddamn problem? When we were in New Jersey, I was like, you've got to be kidding me. How the fuck do you guys not have 12 to 6 elbows?

You can't make it any more complicated for the referees and the fighters.

It's so dumb. It's the dumbest fucking thing of all time. It's so unfair to the fighters themselves. because when we, like I was part, I wrote those things out and they were passed by the ABC, but we gave six months. Six months because you've got to give the fighters time to train to make sure that they get it right. Okay, and so put it in, it works great, and now you expect them to go back to one location. And remember, in the middle of a fight. Exactly. One location, and now they're going to automatically go back to the old rules. It's like, do you realize what you're doing to them?

It doesn't make any sense either. The old rules are fucking stupid. We all agreed. No one was like, no, no, no. 12 to 6 elbows are too dangerous. Oh, yes, there was. Was there people? Oh, yeah.

Your broadcast partner. Shut the fuck up. Which one? Dan Cormier. No. I swear to God. He says some crazy shit. He does say some crazy shit. DC, I love you. I love him. I love him. I love him. I just had DC on yesterday. Why did he say that 12 to 6 elbows are too dangerous? He goes, I think that rule should absolutely, that's dangerous.

I swear. If we're going to ban anything, and I don't think we should ban anything, But if we're going to ban anything, sidekicks to the knees. See, that right there. Right? I don't think we should.

No, you shouldn't.

I don't think we should, but I'm saying if we should, there's an argument that you're going to blow out a guy's knee.

His career will now be the same thing. Then we should absolutely ban kicks to the head and knees to the head. Yes, because what's worse, the blown-out knee or the blown-out brain? I'm agreeing with you. That's the point.

I don't think we should ban anything. There you go. There's one thing that does bother me, like the Khalil Roundtree-Modestis-Pakarskas fight. Remember, well. His knee went sideways. I was like, oh, he's fucked for a year, at least, if not forever. If not forever.

Okay, but what's the difference between that and we'll say, you know, Edson Barbosa. Terry Adam. Terry Adam. And that kick to the head. You don't think that that was more than a year? Come on.

You know it was. Really was never the same again. Exactly. That's my point. Oh, yeah. I mean, that was like getting hit by a meteor. Oh. That was just crazy.

I mean, it was absolutely perfectly executed. Beautiful technique. that it absolutely altered.

By the way, that was the first wheel kick KO in the USA.

Absolutely, it was. I didn't know that. Isn't that crazy? Oh, yeah. Yeah, but you look and you go, there are those fights, and we say it all the time, and as a referee, as a fighter, you know, with him, we go and watch this thing.

Oh, I mean, that one was just... insane but you the fighters themselves they get paid to get damaged i hate to say that but it's the truth that's part of their pay is they go in and they're going to accept some damage but you don't want them to have unnecessary damage right no i agree with you so do you think we go rising rules because there's something to be said for that i do i look at i've i've advocated for knees

on the ground for a long time it's never going to happen my position is it's better in a ring because you can avoid them a little bit if you're mobile, right? If you're still conscious and you have defensive capability, you can move around knees and kicks. When the cage happens and you're butted up and someone stomps you, that's a totally different act.

First off, the stomp I don't ever agree with. And the reason why is this. Name me the fight that you saw that a stomp was an effective technique when the fighter was not already seriously hurt. Doesn't happen. Sakuraba. Sakuraba used to do it all the time. after he hurt people, every time he tried to do it when they weren't hurt, they just moved and he was Mongolian stomping on nothing. Go ahead. Take a look at him. Yeah, I'd have to go

back and watch. Yeah, there was Minowa and Phil Barone. He did that a couple times with him when Minowa couldn't get the takedown because that was their cornering him for that fight. There was that fight, then there was Shogun and Ninja. Remember when they used to do the stomp through? They would stomp through

and that led to that. Ninja and Shogun, the brothers together.

Those guys were phenomenal at him. Oh, and people that only saw Shogun in pride missed it. Oh, yeah. You missed it. Excuse me, in the UFC.

His fight against Quentin Rampage Jackson was, I mean, because a lot of people didn't, you know, going into that fight, you know, that's Rampage. You know, this guy's young. He absolutely just annihilated Rampage in that fight. And it was like, oh, my God, he's way better than I ever gave him credit for before that fight. That fight was a coming-out party for Shogun.

Yeah, he was a lethal striker. All those Curitiba guys were so hyper-aggressive.

Yeah, his brother was just as nasty until he got a little chinny after a couple shots big times. He started fighting big guys. Yeah, that was the problem.

Didn't he fight Alexander? Who did he fight? He fought some heavyweight, right? Yeah, and he got not yet crushed. But he fought one guy where it was like, what is this? Why is he fighting this guy? Yeah.

I can't remember who it was.

Was it Emelianenko's brother? I was going to say it was Alexander Emelianenko. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I think it was that. I think it was.

And it was like one of those fights like, no, no, no, no, no. This is a real fucking heavyweight, a big one with nasty striking. Yeah. You know what I mean? He was fucking nasty. He was good. Yeah. He had some smooth striking.

People don't give the Emeliancos as a whole. Alexander was a little bit off, a little bit crazy.

Oh, a lot. Okay. How about the dead baby on his back? Like the fucking death holding a baby tattooed on his back. Like, that's a choice. That's a fucking choice. See if you find Alexander Emelianenko's back tattoo. You look at that and you're like, what is going on in your mind? And you're like, this should be on my back permanently. But that's the brother.

And then you have Fedor as the guy who was even better. Yeah. And look it, Fedor is, you know, he was such a good guy. Look at that fucking tattoo. There you go.

What does it say in Russian, Jamie? That is the craziest thing. The baby's got a fucking sword and a crown. And then death is like, yes, let's kill everyone. Death is right there. It's not even a good drawing. It's like, that's some Russian prison shit for sure. That's some Russian prison shit. 100%.

He's 100% committed.

That's a ballpoint pen and a fucking sewing needle. Yep. Yeah, they did that in a Russian prison, 100%. Urine and ash. Bro, that's a lot of time. God is with us. Are you sure? Are you sure? Based on that focus.

And then you got his brother. His brother has no tattoos. No tattoos.

He has a small little wooden cross on his chest.

I know, right? He's so stoic. He's awesome. Alexander Milionenko, James Thompson fight.

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The best is the look on Alexander's face throughout all of the things. I'm going to fall asleep on this.

Just completely stoic. Look at Thompson, so worked up. Starts pounding his chest. He's shaking. Look at him. He's ready to fuck this guy. He just stepped out of a bar. He's no flexing at all. Doesn't even lift his hand up all the way. He's like, hey, everybody. Got the belly hanging out a little bit. It's awesome. Look how chill he looks. Look how chill Fedor looks, too. Like, no worries at all. None. Look at James. He's so fucking hyped up. Alexander's like, it's like he's ordering a sandwich. I need some chopsticks. It's like I'll have Swiss cheese and mustard. He's ordering a sandwich.

It's vicious. And then he rocks him, too, right off the bat. James comes charging at him.

James comes charging at him. Puts him down, but he wasn't hurt. It's like he fell down. That hurt. That hurt, James.

That hurt James. Once he starts connecting. Oh, yeah. They had that Soviet-style fluid boxing that just whip punches. Look, I'll tell you what.

I worked out with Fedor. And it was a great moment in my life if you're going to sit there and say, well, if you're going to get your ass kicked, it's a great moment. But the one thing I always thought before watching him, reffing him, I go, he's got to have some kind of, you know, like, just tarred strength. Right, right. No. he's fast and I mean super fast when he explodes and his hands are down kind of so it's hard to see when the shots are coming and everything he does he just explodes into and you go oh I get it because you gotta work really hard to try to stay up with his speed when he all of a sudden is exploding and then it's like oh he doesn't get tired and you're starting to get tired because you're having to match that RPM that he's at and he's not a big heavyweight either

which I think is a real benefit I think it is. Until you're fighting a guy like Ngannou. Yeah. And I'm like, there's a problem there. Oh, yeah. Because that guy can be patient, 265 naturally, nuclear power.

Ngannou hits you anywhere in the head. It's a problem. You're in trouble. Yeah, it's a real problem. He hit Philip Lins, hit him on the basic, almost, we don't even say the temple, hit him almost to the top of the head. And look, he was out. I mean, he's not being able to control his body. that guy's got the ability to hurt when he fought Kane take a look, it wasn't a great shot but it hurt him

he's got crazy power but Fedor was a different thing because Fedor had that Russian style of movement that you see like Dimitri Bival has where they're real relaxed and then they explode and the footwork and movement

that little bit of a bounce, he's got that little bit of a bounce in and out and he waits for your motion to come where he wants it to be and then he changes that distance and just cracks.

Fedor did a really good job of coming around your guard as well. So it wasn't just a big straight right all the time. You know, Rich Franklin used to do that as well. He'd come around your guard and you'd put your hands up. And Fedor, he did a great job with that, coming around and landing the big overhand right, and then he'd come up uppercut, then he'd take you down or hip toss you, body lock you.

And if you took him to the ground, off his back, he's got one of the quickest fucking arm bars in the game, which is nuts. Hongman Choi, he armbarred a seven-foot-tall dude.

He looks like a little kid. He's all stretched out. He looks like this. He's off the ground completely.

He was great everywhere. And, you know, you think about him as being this overall picture of, like, one of the greatest, if not the greatest, MMA fighter of all time. But people forget, like, his stand-up was so good that the...

Cro-Cop fight was mostly stand-up.

He wrote the blueprint on how to beat Cro-Cop.

Exactly. Which, you've got to be him to do it, though. Yeah. The thing, I mean, he, first of all, his stand-up has always been real dangerous. But also, it's like the way he was able to check that left kick. He was doing a lot of, like, lifting the knee up and catching it.

Yeah, up high. Yeah. But how many people had you seen that would back Cro-Cop onto his back foot and march forward? Nobody. Exactly. Not in his prime. That was the difference is when you looked at it, he told himself, nope, I'm going to make you go backwards. And it took a lot of what Crow Cop did, and it just nullified a lot of it. Well, a lot of it was the threat of the grappling. Oh, yeah. That was a big part of it.

Well, not only that, because then Fedor didn't have to worry about if he did slip and fall. If he threw a big shot and he got cut from underneath, if he did fall to the ground, Crow Cop wasn't going to fall into the ground. He could just hop back up. So there was that. And then on top of it, too, when you fought him in a phone booth, you're not worried as much for that head kick to get there if I'm within inches of you.

That left kick was, yeah.

There's this picture of Heath Herring where the shin is like halfway into Heath's ribs. Oh, yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about. You know that picture? Yes, I do. It's crazy. You see Pro Cop's shin is just so deep. You just feel your own liver.

I've seen the Vanderlei ones because Vanderlei, his ribs were just tore up from their fight. Look at that picture.

Look at that picture. Bro, that's crazy. Do you know how much that hurts? I mean, that is. Actually, I do.

That's the part where you look at people and you go, do you realize, yeah, that would hurt a little. No, no, no. Your entire body is going, I quit. It just seizes up.

He had such explosive power. And to me, he was like the first guy to figure out how to transition from kickboxing to MMA because he did it with explosiveness. But Maurice Smith, come on, you've got to give him a guess. That's true. Maurice Smith, I've got to give him a guess. That's true. Maurice was the first. but Krokop was in that same era and he was doing it in pride and all those other guys like Ernesto Hust it didn't really work out for them he only fought Bob Sapp in a kickboxing fight but even when they were fighting Krokop fucked up Bob Sapp same era same time period it was that explosiveness whereas guys like Peter Ertz that wouldn't translate as well in MMA elite strikers but they wanted to get into a rhythm They wanted to like get into situations and exchanges and with Krokop it was as these one shots were coming at you like nuclear missiles And it was a different threat It was a completely different threat than a lot of other guys because he was so explosive. Yeah

Yeah, he's Krokop was what a great guy. Oh, he's awesome as far as you know and but His left kick has to be the best left kick there's ever been ever in the sport of MMA

Yeah, I don't think you could even think of a second place. Like, who's got a better left kick than Kroka? Maybe Edson Barboza's switch kick. Yeah. That switch kick was preposterous. Yeah, it's fast and quick, so accurate, too. In his prime, he would kick, and I'd be like, is there something wrong with my eyes? So fast. It was, ah! So fast. It was just, like, a 120-pound guy.

Yeah. It was so fast. Yeah, Dana called me a couple times to fight him, and I was, like, ranked number three. He was, like, just, I think, hit number 15. I'm like, no. give me a higher rank

sorry dude

it's not that I it's not that I wouldn't find it give me a higher rank

make it make sense yeah make it make sense help me help you come on at this time in my life make it make sense

when he came in though you gotta look at Barbosa you know he's been there a long time now when you think about it still going at it but when he came in it was like dude this is a next level of stand-up ability with what this guy can do. And it was like... And oddly, mostly kicks.

Yeah. Like, his boxing wasn't threatening like his kicks were. It was not equal. No, no. It was mostly kicks.

You're right. No. If he could have developed something along the Jose Aldo level of boxing where he ripped the body, came back from the top of the head with those kicks, I mean...

Aldo's takedown defense was nuts.

Probably the best. I think probably the best in the sport that we've seen.

I mean, honestly. Other than BJ and his prime. Yeah, right, with the one-leg hop. B.J. in his prime was ridiculous. His balance was fucking insane. But I think he's the only guy that didn't get taken down by Marab. When Marab and him fought three crazy rounds, I think Marab went for like 90 fucking takedowns or something. And I don't think Marab took him down. I think Marab mostly won that fight up against the cage, hitting him with punches, working for takedowns, cage damage.

Extremely underestimated Jose Aldo's takedown defense.

You take a look and Aldo doesn't now. All of a sudden, it's kind of like the Anderson Silva thing. All of a sudden, it's like, you know, well, let's talk about the very best in the 145-pound. And look at Alexander Volkanovsky's right there. He's phenomenal. You know, I'm not saying it. Don't forget what Jose Aldo did. Absolutely. I mean, through the day.

WEC end up being the UFC champion all those fights man. I'll tell you what that guy Was absolutely nuts as far as how good he was at one time

Well, I think it was also because he was an elite soccer player and the ability to like if you're watching a live soccer game A professional soccer match you're like. Oh, Jesus like the athletes they don't get to slow down They don't have a like a there's no halftime. There's no like big break for commercials. There's no bullshit they just go there's no timeout giant fucking legs yeah they all have insane leg power because they're just sprinting all day long and you go oh well that would translate perfectly to mma for

kicking for moving for footwork think about all it's not just that right it's it's the stop and go stop and go like in a real fight right i get a takedown i get to rest for a second then he postures back up and gets back to his feet i gotta go again spritz again get the takedown in soccer same thing you run hard down the line oh ball gets turned back now you kind of jog back a little bit now the ball gets played to you it's the stop and go of sprinting just like a real

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soccer and wrestling those two things the grinding of the wrestling and just the cardio fatigue and understanding that i can push through when i get tired because there's nothing more satisfying you know in terms of when you run down the line the guy plays the ball in the corner and you got to beat that defender there and you cross it across and you're it's that sprinting down there to beat But then also, too, in wrestling, knowing that you can break another human being. Like, I need to break you mentally, grind on you, and hang on you. Those two sports, I think, are huge for the sport of MMA.

And getting used to suffering dehydrated. Right? There's a big factor in that. Yeah, the weight cuts.

Getting used to suffering.

Yeah. But the weight cuts and having to compete on the same day as weight cuts is a big difference. And for people that have never done that before and don't know, it's fucking hard. Even 24 hours is hard. Weight cutting is the grossest thing in MMA. It is. They should figure out a way to stop it. I don't know what the way is.

You're going to talk about one of the most dangerous things that you do with it. Think about this, Joe. Every sport, soccer, football, baseball, basketball, they all have team chefs. They all have all these things. As far as we want our athletes to be as physically ready and have the right nutrition and all these things, what's the sports that we go and we starve our athletes and dehydrate them?

24 hours before a cage fight 24 hours before the most demanding most dangerous sport in the world

but Joe even if we did it the same day fighters would still cut weight to try and make that weight they would still do that to themselves

the question is I wonder if there's a way to prevent that like the way to prevent that I would say is everybody here's your mandate no one's getting out of shape anymore because we're going to have random weigh ins so we're going to just show up at your fucking gym you can't do it but could you like let's say you fight at 170 You cannot weigh more than 180. See, here's the, you could do it. On any given day. I'll show up at your fucking house at 7 in the morning. Josh, get on the scale. 175.

This is not good. You could do it as a promotion. You can't do it as an industry within the sport. And the reason why I'm saying that is, first off, you have all these fighters, we'll say. They're all everywhere, okay, all over the world. And for an athletic commission, we'll say the state of California, state of Texas. They have to have that particular fighter licensed for them to say, we want to weigh you. If they're not licensed in that state on that year, they can sit there and go, no.

But if it got adopted by the UFC, I bet most of the organizations would adopt it as well.

But again, the UFC has a promotion. The UFC has talked about it. And the UFC has the money.

To actually do that, but it's going to cost them a lot of money. And, you know, look it. I understand why the promotion doesn't want to lose money just weighing people. I think the fight should be better.

I think guys would be in way better condition. They absolutely would.

I think we've seen the performances have gotten better since they stop cutting as much weight. You could sit there and, you know, the only way an athletic commission could kind of do it, but this is bad on promotions, is an athletic commission could sit there and say, you are allowed to weigh no more than five pounds more than that weigh-in weight. Okay? But here's your problems with it. First off, the promotion can lose fights. The promotion doesn't want to lose fights. True. And the second part is what's saying that the fighter themselves is not keeping themselves dehydrated to make that five pound. And now they're going in even more dehydrated into the fight, which could cause them more problems.

Well, they couldn't be dehydrated through their entire camp. And that's where you institute randoms.

That's why your randoms would work if the promotion was doing it. Yeah, but it would have to do it sport wide. It'd be almost impossible.

It would have to take a long time to figure out how to do it properly and not lose fights Because there's too many guys that fuck around. Oh, you know, there's right There's too many guys that like like how many times John Jones not really trained Oh, yeah, you know like the Gustafson fight the first one They said he didn't really train ten days showed up a little bit here and there didn't really train So if there's a guy like that, what are you gonna not let him fight? Like what are you gonna do? Like what yeah, but then you also 26 and you also know that's too much

You also have guys like Michael Morales right now, 170 pounders, walking around like huge, like 210, 212, 205.

I mean, there's a few of those guys where I'm standing next to them like Gregory Rodriguez. I'm like, how? How? How are you ever 185 pounds?

How was Alex 185 pounds? I stand next to him and go, you gotta be shitting me. Nuts. Nuts. Nuts.

It's unbelievable. And at 185 pounds, nuclear power, but I don't think he took a shot as well.

a shot as well it didn't there's no doubt about it yeah you can go back and look at his fights he got hurt by shots that were not as hard as ones he's taken at 205 right based upon yeah it's that

weight cut it's the point of diminishing returns right it's like there's a place where you're just doing it too much and you know you kind of love to see freaks you love to see a guy like alex weighing at 185 you're like good luck with that good luck with his 226 pound fucking amazon warrior that pretended to be 185 for five minutes for five minutes but you take a look at i'm so surprised

how he can make the weight when you pass by him and you see how tall he is how big he is and you see him with the face off with cyril gone right now you're like how would this guy ever make 185

he's 250 now oh yeah which is crazy i saw him last week and it's like

dude 250 means that's almost 70 pounds different from his ufc debut

the only thing that makes me believe that we're going to see a better Alex is because he doesn't have to kill himself

but he also put on muscle

and there's an issue with that exactly again diminishing returns how much is that muscle going to do this is where you try to tell all fighters Joe when you were fighting in Taekwondo did you care about the strong guy or did you care about the fast guy the difference is MMA

with grappling the The difference is with weight, like if you get a big, heavy guy and he gets on top of you, all your speed is gone. Absolutely. You're right. It's gone within the first three or four minutes.

But the problem with being the bigger, stronger guy in the lighter weight class is you're never the faster guy. And so you've got to be able to maul that person to be effective. And it only lasts for a certain amount of time if you had to dehydrate yourself to that point. Where speed is always there when someone has it to a point unless they get tired and that speed is hard for you to

Handle but there's guys that were big for the weight class and had ridiculous speed like Conor McGregor is a perfect example Yeah, Conor at 145 was fast as fuck Conor was absolutely

Dehydrated to the point of being a concentration camp victim. Okay. Look like death. I mean it was unbelievable However, once he got in there, he was fast as fuck. He used to lose so much. At 145, he was killing himself.

I remember the weigh-ins, like interviewing him at weigh-ins, like this is crazy. Skeletor. Oh my God. But then you see him the next day all full.

He looked good. I know. Looking fucking handsome. Feeling good. He was also, what was his age back then? 26, 27? Right, right. You can't do that now.

No, you can't do that now. No, it gets to a certain point in time where you have to realize you're cutting too much weight and it's actually ruining your career.

But I think the evidence has been pretty clear. When you see guys go up in weight after killing themselves for so long, they've had success.

A lot of guys have. Look at Max.

I was just about to bring him up. I just had Dustin Poirier on the podcast yesterday, and we were just talking about how he's like, look, Max, the first time he came up to 55, didn't put the weight on properly. Second time put it on properly, he's like, significant difference in power, mobility, movement. The BMF fight with Gaethje? Oh, come on, man. That guy should have never went down to 45 again to fight Topuri. It's too much loss.

What? What are you pointing at that? Because we had that argument about that exact thing of he, Josh was saying, look, he should never, it was a championship fight. He was getting a world title fight at 145. And I said, look, it's a world title fight. I understand why he's going back down. He's making a huge mistake. He should never take it. He should stay at 155. you know work yourself into a title fight and I go I understand why he's taking it that made him the number one contender

he beat Justin Gaethje he could have fought Islam I understand why he took the fight at 45 maybe he would have favored that fight with Ilya because Ilya is a smaller guy than Islam because if you think about it Islam he fucking smothers everybody and his striking is dangerous as fuck of course you know but it's like that guy he's so fucking terrifying once he gets

a hold of you like he submits everybody he's a whole lot better in the stand-up than people give him credit for oh he is his stand-up is actually really good volkanovsky oh yeah i don't care if

volkanovsky took it on 11 days notice he's still head kick he's got a sneaky left head kick high kick it's nasty he fucks people up standing up and that's part of the problem is that like you get accustomed to thinking about this guy's a grappler yeah and then all of a sudden bing

yeah my point was though was that there was no he put the weight on properly he looked fantastic like against Justin Gaethje, and then to go back down there to fight Iliad, I was like, it doesn't make sense. You're the number one guy or number two guy. It is. It's hard on your body. You kill yourself to get back down, and then he gets knocked out, which we had never seen before.

Well, that's Roy Jones Jr. too, right? Remember when Roy Jones Jr. went up and fought Ruiz, and then he went all the way down to 75 and got knocked out by Tarver? Yep. It's like I don't think your body wants to go back down again. You put on all that weight over like a year, and you're lifting weights. And Max had a ridiculous strength and conditioning program. He put real weight on. He looked very good at 55.

When Max fought Aldo the first time for the title, he weighed, you know, obviously weighed in at championship weight 145. The night of the fight, Joe, now he was in street clothes, but they put him on a scale, 178.

What? I swear to God.

170. Now he was still clothed.

That's crazy.

I don't know.

What, is he wearing rocks in his pockets? That's crazy.

Frank Shamrock with quarters in his pockets.

Right, when he fought Tito. So let's just be real charitable and say his clothes weigh 10 pounds. Exactly.

That's crazy. You're looking at more than 20 pounds. That's crazy. But it happens all the time. The show that just happened in California at the Inuit doing with that, the MVP, the one guy, 27-pound difference in weight at 170 pounds, came in 27, 197. Who was it? I want to say his name.

Was it the guys right before Saladin Parnas? Yeah. Freema? Freema?

It starts with a Z, I want to say.

I can't think of it. But 27 pounds. Well, obviously, the biggest one was Rumble Johnson. Absolutely. Rumble Johnson was the craziest. He would weigh 230 and make it all the way. But basically what Morales is doing right now. MVP event on Netflix. Fazil. Fazil, there you go. Namo Fazil recorded the highest weight gain, 27.2 pounds. That's insane. Can you believe that? That's insane. That's so much. He got into the cage at 198 for a 170-pound fight. I would love to get Morales on the scales. Like right before he fought Sean Brady. Oh, yeah.

Excuse me, sir. Sean Brady is a thick human. He's not super tall, but he's thick. Oh, yeah. He is put together. And Morales made him look like a lightweight.

Like he was in the wrong division. Exactly. He looked like a light heavyweight.

I was trying to make sense of it watching it on TV. I thought maybe it was the camera angle.

And then they shifted.

I was like, no, he's still bigger than him when he's further away. He's further away. He's still bigger. He's way bigger than him.

Yeah. That's a crazy situation where a guy can do that. And it's like the Pereira situation in 88-5 too. When a guy can do that, first of all, how long can you do it? That's the question. You know, because you're basically killing your kidneys every time you do it. You're just taking a little bit out of him.

That was the problem with AJ, you know. Like I used to coach and corner AJ early in his career when he first came to the UFC. And that was his problem. He'd make weight. Sometimes he'd make it. Sometimes he would. he missed weight a lot to the point where that affected whatever happened yeah absolutely god

that's fucking horrible yeah that's fucking horrible again you're leaving small bits and pieces of yourself of course in that damn cage every time when i've heard even when you win

he died i was like no there's a true science to cutting weight and he just he didn't have it down he wrestled you know nc2a he wrestled division two like he was a really good wrestler he knew how to make weight but then trying to kill himself to get to 70 every single time which

Which he never had to be at.

Yeah, he never had to be at.

And he never had to be at. I mean, he has massive power. Oh, God. He did great at heavyweight. And he's fast. He beat Arlovsky at heavyweight. In the World Series of Fighters. Yeah, World Series of Fighters. A long time ago. Broke his job. When Arlovsky was still super legit. Broke Arlovsky's job. Yeah.

Not that Arlovsky's not super legit now. Fucking guy wins bare-knuckle heavyweight championship at like 100 years old. Dude, you gotta love it.

And fought it smart. Yeah. You take a look at Andre Arlovsky, and people say whatever they want about his career is amazing. Since UFC 28 was his first show. Nuts. Okay? Went all the way into today's day, basically. But he changed his style. You know, Arlovsky was a big power puncher for a long time, and then was getting hit with big shots and said, you know what, I'm going to be a volume guy. And he was successful with it and didn't take near as much damage. Yeah, he fought a lot more technical, a lot slicker. Didn't take big chances.

Beat a lot of good guys, too. Beat Travis Brown when Travis was in his prime.

Oh, that fight with Travis Brown was a frickin' awesome fight.

Awesome fight. Awesome fight. He tore Rothwell up. Which is, a lot of people were super surprised by that. Oh, yeah. A lot of people thought, you know, Rothwell's a tank of a man. Yeah. And he's a fucking scary big puncher, and he just looks hairy like a fucking bear. He's scary. Rothwell's close to 400 pounds. That's crazy. That's massive. Is that real? Yeah. He's real. He's really that big? He's that big. He's that big. He's unbelievably big. But meanwhile, he's the one getting busted up in this fight, and it was because, you know, Arlovsky was just fighting very clever. Just so tough after all these years, man.

You watch this fight right now, they think that this fight gets stopped for that cut on his forehead. That is not why. He has a cut on his eye running up into his tear duct, and that's why it wasn't that big of a cut. But any time it goes to the tear duct, there's the doctor saying, oh, no, it's over.

Yeah, to touch on what John was saying, though, is it really just comes down to how he changed his style of fighting. He either fought you all the way in or all the way out. He fought you in that phone booth so you couldn't get off big power shots to avoid being knocked out. because he went through a phase where he was getting clipped a lot getting knocked out. Getting hurt. Yeah. So he made that

adjustment. That's good on him. And all those years in the game, never lost his enthusiasm. No. You know? He's a character.

Never got out of shape. Who are you talking to? He's fighting influencers at shows. Have you?

I saw that. The little kid. That was crazy. Imagine those fucking dumb kids. Right? Little midgets running around

trying to fucking get him. I was like, what are you guys doing? Are you crazy? Do you know who that is? The best part was So then the finflourist kid goes, hey, you can fight my bodyguard. The bodyguard's in the background going, uh-uh.

Sure, yeah, I'll do it. It's like, yeah, I'll fight him. That's a good idea. If your bodyguard doesn't know who Orlovsky is, you need to get a new bodyguard.

He's telling them that my bodyguard will fight him. I was like, oh, shit.

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I watched the ending, yeah. Oh, yes. I thought it was a... I don't want to say robbery because I guess apparently Usyk was up on the scorecards two to one.

That's robbery. That's the robbery. Yeah. That's the robbery. If that's the case, that's a robbery.

Yeah, he was up, I guess. I thought, first off, Rico Verhoeven, we know what he's been in kickboxing, and he's been fantastic. Greatest of all time. Unbelievable.

Greatest of all time.

Yeah, and you can look back on certain people, Ernesto Hoost, how great he was. Badahari was a badass.

All of them were awesome, but Rico's accomplished more than anybody. Absolutely. He's been undefeated for more than 10 years.

years in kickboxing that's nuts yes it is that's not especially with the amount of rounds

comparatively and stuff because you can have a bad round and it can really affect your fight just like mma but this fight i really thought going in i go look rico will do okay for the for the first couple rounds and then it's going to start to get to him i was shocked by it he he fought very clever and he he didn't fight he didn't fight big he actually he created the problems of closing that distance every time you look how close he kept on getting into the phone and he would do work and it was causing usick nothing but problems also rico is known for his discipline

and his fitness yes like he's a guy who always has tremendous conditioning and i think there's a lot of heavyweights that would be surprised at the work that this guy does and the pace that he could put on so a lot of people like oh he's going to get tired he only fights three minute

and that's honestly what i was thinking it gets past five rounds i'm wondering how he's going to

be able to hold that pace the guy's such a cardio fiend and he's always shredded and it's just he's so used to combat too that like getting in there just fighting usick it's not a big deal that right hand right there was i mean beautiful bro he was winning eight to two in my eyes okay i thought he was winning eight to two going into the 11th round when the fight was stopped now the fight shouldn't have been stopped the way it was stopped but also that was in eight seconds after the knockdown so Well, after he gets knocked down, he doesn't have his mouthpiece. So then they have to go over to the corner. They rinse off his mouthpiece.

Okay, that's a mistake right there.

Yeah, the whole thing's a mistake. It takes like 30 seconds. Yeah. And then the referee stops it when he's still standing, moving around.

Look, if there's one of the things that changed in boxing, since I referee boxing now. So here it is right here. This is the end.

We could watch it real quick. So this is the end. Look at all this time. So he's up, and he goes over. Oh, this is a mistake right here. Look, he's lumbering over to his corner. Hey, come on over. Let me take my time.

Watch the first thing that happens. and this is what we'll talk about.

Oh, oh, it dropped. That's on purpose. Of course. I'm doing that on purpose. Of course, I would. Any second counts. But then, look at this. So he swarms him with some punches, but Rico's moving. He's covering up. He's moving. What is he supposed to do? What is he supposed to do? That's a bad stoppage.

I agree with you.

So if you're going to stop it because you felt like the first knockdown was too much, why would you let him rinse the glove off? And he didn't take significant damage after that. That's a bad stoppage. No, and it's also the end of the round. It's the second. It's the end of the round. It's literally the end of the round. I think he actually stops it when the round's over.

Look, as the referee, Joe, you know all of this. And if you don't, you're not doing your job. First off, you know he's got a full minute. If I let this go one second, he's got a full minute to recover here. Even if I did think he was a little bit hurt.

Now, I think that if that was a legitimate eight count and they went right back to fighting, he would have stopped him there. Maybe. I think he was really rocked. When you see him go back to his corner, maybe is the key word.

See, one of the things that used to be, though, in boxing, it was always that you would, if a mouthpiece hit the ground, you had to take it to the corner, have it rinsed with water, and have it placed back in the fighter's mouth. Right. That's not the way it is anymore. Because of MMA and the fact that we take a mouthpiece off of the ground and, shoot, stuff it right back in the fighter's mouth, they have now changed to the point of they do the same thing. And the difference is, many times we'll hand the mouthpiece to the MMA fighter because they have gloveless fingers. Right. Right? And they put it back in. Sometimes we'll put it back in, depending upon situations. But in boxing now, you take it. I'll put it back in his mouth. I'll say, is that good? Boom, fight. And you don't... Is that universal?

Is that in Egypt as well? Do you think that's possible?

You're talking about under the unified rules of boxing now, which is North America. Okay. That's, you know, most of the time you go to Egypt, they're still fighting under the unified rules. But the refereeing is always going to be different when you get a referee from England or somewhere. It's a little bit different.

But I wonder if the referee rules are different over there, if you're supposed to rinse off the mouthpiece before you put it back.

No, what it means is you have not advanced as a referee to understand what we do now.

Right, but what I'm saying is do they have different rules over there? No, this is what I'm saying. Definitely not?

You have not advanced as a referee to understand what we do now.

Mouthpiece goes down, you pick it up, you put it right back in the face.

Can you? Yes. So it's like when the UFC goes to a country that doesn't have a commission, they'll bring Herb Dean, they'll bring referees with them, so they know the rules to make sure that something like this doesn't happen. That referee hasn't followed up with the rules in a big-time fight, so it costs them.

He's not gone and advanced his training to understand, this is what we do now, and this is why. Because we don't want, I don't want to take that time from Usyk, because Usyk did his job. He hit him with an uppercut that absolutely blasted him, puts him on the mat. you go and he gets up you give him the mandatory now his mouthpiece comes out am I going to walk it over to a corner and have that mouthpiece washed out with water which does what for it does it disinfect it

Exactly, okay? And that's the real thing. So it doesn't do anything. Obviously, if there's something in the mouthpiece, we remove the thing from the mouthpiece. But normally it's just spitting blood if that's what's there. Put it back in. Boom. Bring him back in as abruptly as you can to make it fair for Usyk, who gained an advantage in the fight.

You don't want to give the advantage to Verhoeven. Also, his mouthpiece came out earlier in the fight as well. It's like that's a bad mouthpiece for a guy who's a world-class kickboxer.

world champion kickboxer. That thing should be so hard for you to pull out.

It's odd that it kept falling out of his mouth. Rico with a boiling bite is nuts. In the heavyweight division?

Do you remember Carl Parisian? Sure. He would wear a boiling bite that wasn't boiled. Straight out of the packaging. That's the way people are though.

That's wild to me. Boiling bites are nuts. Well it's also nuts. We talk about this on the USC broadcasts all the time, but I think it's nuts that you're still allowed to wear a Thai steel cup. I think it's fucking crazy. I think it's crazy. I would wear it. I would, too. That's all I ever wore.

I can't wrap my head around how fighters don't wear them. 100%. I agree

with you 100%. However, it should be illegal. It's fucking crazy. You have a piece of metal over your dick. You have actual iron over your cock, and if a guy kicks it with his toe, it's going to shatter.

I've always wondered the north-south position. You just start humping their head, right? Oh, dude.

Just giving them the business. There was one that did that. I trained with him at legends and he mounted me once and he almost made me tap right? Yeah, by just Digging his dick into my sternum I'm like this is so rude He grapevine man. I'm like, bro, you're fucking killing me with this. Like it showed it was Shoney Carter

Shoney Carter Oh, Shoney Carter used to wear an oversized cup. Also awesome for arm bars. Yes

That's how Frank Mir broke Tim Sylvia's arm. Oh, yeah. It was off of that. It was off of that metal cup. That completely makes sense. Yeah But I think it would have broken it if it was just as nuts. Well, as strong as Frank could be.

As strong as he was is how good his arm was in that position. That was a crazy situation. Oh, yes, it was. That was crazy because I don't think the people in the audience had any idea of what had happened.

If you go back to that, because Herb Dean was the referee, and Herb did a great job. But I was actually in the corner of Tim Sylvia where I was sitting, and I had Jeremy Horn and Matt Hughes and Pat Miletic are in his corner, right? And I had the same view that they had. And what you saw was Tim Sylvia, but you saw his elbow out from that armbar, away from the hip. And all of a sudden, Herb's stopping it. And they are going crazy. They're going, what are you doing? And they're calling him every name in the book. And I go right inside the octagon, and I go, Herb, what did you have? And he goes, John, his arm broke. I go, his arm broke? And he goes, I heard it, and I saw it. Yeah, you can see the vibration. And he goes, his arm broke, right? And so at the time, the person who was in charge of the medical staff for the Nevada State Athletic Commission, since it was in Nevada, they're looking at Tim, and Tim is like going, you know. But you saw Tim slowly stop using that one arm and started going down to the side as reality started setting in and the pain started coming. But they basically said, there's nothing wrong with his arm, right? I swear to you, Herb's greatest response I've ever heard. He goes, X-ray that motherfucker, right? Because Herb never cusses, right? He goes, X-ray that motherfucker. It's broken, right? And sure enough, straight across both bones.

Well, we could see it in the replay. Oh, yes. And you called it out. It was in the forearm. Yeah. Because everybody was booing. I'm like, you got to watch this. Watch this. What's that? What's that right there? That's a broken arm.

When I saw it the first time on TV, I thought it just shifted off of the cup. Because sometimes you'll see that. The bone will shift off. but then you can tell it had two distinct pops

it had like that highlight where something bends like a piece of plastic it looked horrible man oh my god that was horrible he's broken more arms like he broke Noguera's arm that spiral fracture

with the Kimura yeah he's nasty man it's funny because if you're around Frank and you're talking he'll always say

oh here it is oh god I don't want to watch it again watch it

here it comes

Right here.

Pop.

Ah!

Oh, God. And it's the forearm, too, which is, like, super unusual.

And everyone's wondering, why'd you stop it? Why'd you stop it? Oh, dude, Herb was getting booed out of the arena there. I remember this. They were so mad.

I remember this, and Tim was complaining. Oh, yeah. Like, come on, bro. Like, you know what just happened. He has to know what just happened. Oh, he knows? He's just such an animal. He wanted to fight with a broken arm. Which, you know, literally, you might have to get it amputated if you did that. Oh, look at me. What kind of damage you would have after that.

lose your arm yeah you know that's you know this is where but you'll get people all the time you know i mean some of the commentators and some of the shows you know oh if he wants to fight let him fight it's like shut up shut up okay yeah this is you gotta protect the fighter from this is exactly this is not life and death yeah if you lose a fight i know it sucks but it just sucks

and it's not life and death it's okay crazy situations like carlos olberg who knocks out you're pro hoska with a clearly blown out knee oh yeah we're like if that went to the round at the end of the round they would have probably stopped the fight well think about what santos right he ended up fighting john jones with two torn out acl pcl right yeah that's john jones yeah i mean and gave him a good fight he gave him a great fight i think that was a split decision oh it was which is nuts yeah it's nuts like he could have won we had like one more incompetent judge now we're going to incompetent judges now we're gonna have problems well whoever was judging the fight was incompetent those those people were ridiculous the fact that they didn't have rico ahead is crazy yeah they just i think when you got a guy like usick who's arguably the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time he's definitely in the conversation and then you have so much money involved in him being undefeated and so and whether the referee's corrupt or not they know Whether the judges are corrupt or not, they know. And if they fuck things up for everybody, you know, there's some weird shenanigans that go on in boxing. Remember that lady that scored, it was a Pacquiao fight against Tim Bradley. She was one of the ones that she scored a bunch of fights.

I thought you were going to talk Canelo against Triple G. There was a Canelo one that she scored bad.

Yeah, there's a she scored a bunch of fights where you're like what the fuck is this and then you have to realize about betting props

Yeah, no, no, it's not Adelaide Byrd though. No Adelaide Byrd was was the Canelo versus G G very nice lady She's just like it. She I'm gonna give her her props in this first off She doesn't do a whole lot of boxing mark, but she does do a lot of MMA does a lot of the UFC still and so that woman watches more fights goes to more trainings, she puts in all the time that you could imagine to always try to get better. She is asking questions all the time. Now, if you're going to sit there and say, well, can she roll? No, she can't. But she knows what, if you say, okay, what's this? She'll tell you. What's this? She knows it. I'm sure. She puts in that time. But you're always going to have the, there are certain fights no matter what. They're always going to be there. As the judge, you always, you're trying to do your best yeah but there's this one lady where she was involved in quite a

few like ridiculous ones and the tim bradley manny pacquiao one was a big one and then they looked at some other ones and then she stepped away from it the problem is and i'm not accusing this lady or anybody of this but i'm saying that some people have done this in the past is that all you have to do is make it a split decision all you have to do is be one shitty judge that even though it was clearly for this guy, you say it's for that guy and someone's making a ton of loot. Especially in this day and age with betting. 100%, man. The UFC has a real problem. There's a real problem with quite a few fights. The FBI has looked into quite a few fights. There's one that they focused on in the beginning because they knew that there was some improper betting, but now they're focused on a bunch of other ones as well.

I'm going to say this

about the judge. To think that you can get away with it, John, to think that you're going to be able to get away with it

It's just fucking stupid. You're an idiot. As the fighter, you're a fool. But if you were around the judging, especially in the UFC, because it's mainly a lot of the same guys. These guys are on text links. They are consistently. Joe, every UFC fight, my phone blows up. It blows up with fighters. It blows up from other officials. Asking, what did you see? What do you think? And it's because, look, there is, at times, we get media and we get people talking about our fights that call robberies when there's no robbery. It's a close fight.

And your guy, you wanted your guy to win, and he lost. Hello, did not win. Yeah, fucking robbery.

I pointed it out to him. I had him sit one time. Hey, sit where the judge sits. Because you get one view. You, as the commentator, you get that beautiful monitor that's in front of you. there's times when you're watching the fight live and there's times when you're watching the monitor because the angles change as the judge now they put the monitor there for the judges and like the UFC puts a great monitor there for them but we didn't always have that and you didn't always many times you had the worst seat in the house to be able to judge a fight

especially if there's a post in front of you

and it's so different than what people think and it's when you are the

one that's putting your name on that scorecard you're signing it you're and you know this counts it's everything it is everything to you to be right you want to be right but many times what you're seeing and that's why they're at the three different points and that's why something you know people get into this well it was a split decision split decision is not always bad do you think

there'd be a benefit in having five judges instead of three no no i've worked with it i've done it

too many times it doesn't change anything it doesn't doesn't change anything i'm just being honest if it did i would say i yeah we should do it but if you have two bad judges and three good ones why do you have why do you have two bad judges that's the question that is a question

but when you're on the road let's be honest when we're on the road we do it let's not even name a state but we show up we have to use these regular local guys there have been issues i'm not saying there haven't right i'm not saying there are bad judges yes absolutely i love cops there's bad cops there are i love dentists there's some bad dentists there's some fucking people that do surgeries that don't have to do them you know what i mean oh yeah it's like it doesn't it's not saying that the people that do it and do a great job shouldn't be supported and praised and they definitely should but it's also it's like it would benefit i think everybody to have a few more opinions like i like verdict have you seen verdict mma i've bumped them up a bunch of times i think they're accurate like 99 of the time i look at the verdict score i'm like most close time out of 100 fights, most of the time I agree with the verdict score.

There's many times, though, you can take a look at this. When I started teaching the command course and everything, people, oh, you got to teach yourself. I'm teaching people to take my job. Okay?

Right. But in the end, I... Well, they need a lot of referees, luckily. They need a lot of judges. But they also need a lot of referees for the big ones, where you can't fuck this up. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, that's where...

It is. It's important. But it's not the job that people think it is. It is not as easy as people think it is.

Oh, it's definitely not easy.

And it's definitely... It's the hardest job next to being a fighter. Yeah. I think it's fighters number one, referees number two. Yes and no. And you're right. Fighting is much more difficult as far as what it does to your body and what you have to put out into it and all that. Way more difficult.

Also, the consequences of fucking it up. Boom. I don't have the consequences. If I make a bad call as a commentator, it's like, oh, Joe's an idiot. That doesn't mean anything. like nobody loses money like somebody could lose half their fucking purse which i hate by the way yeah i don't like i don't like the whole win bonus everyone's trying to win it can't stand it can't stand it you should get paid you're a prize fighter you should get paid to compete this is the number whether it's 200 000 or two it shouldn't be dependent upon judges decisions it should be dependent upon you showed up you fought your fucking ass off you're trying to win if you win you're going to make more money no one's trying to lose right so it's like what are we doing This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew. Listen up. Blue Chew just dropped something wild. They're calling it Blue Chew Gold. And honestly, the name fits. The stuff is setting a whole new standard for performance in the bedroom. It's not your typical blue pill. It combines two ingredients for blood flow with two for mental arousal and connection. It's not just physical. It's the mindset, too. Blue Chew gets it. sex is not just about being able to perform it's about actually wanting to and i've got a special deal for you listeners right now when you buy two months of blue chew gold you get the third free with the promo code rogan you'll also receive an additional 10 off plus free overnight shipping on your first order visit blue chew.com for more details and important safety information i'm okay

with the win bonus, but it's gotta be more skewed towards the show money. So give me, like, let's just, I'm using a round number of $100,000. 80-20? 80-20, right? And then you give me another bonus for a finishing bonus. If I give a knockout, you give me another 20 or 50. Well, they're doing that now. The UFC's doing finishing bonuses.

Yeah, exactly. But I just don't like win bonuses. I think you, you know, the fact that there have been bad decisions and guys have lost half their fucking purse when they need it. And it's, it's, you got robbed. That's when you really got robbed. Yes. Not just a decision. Absolutely. You got robbed financially, which is fucking crazy to me. I think fighters should get... I don't think they fight harder. I don't think anybody

fights harder. They want to win. They want to win.

That's it. No one's fighting harder. No one's fighting harder

because it's just something sitting out there. And if they are, they probably

shouldn't be fighting in the UFC anyway. Because they're not at an elite, world-class level if they're fighting harder

for a bonus. If you're in the top 15, you're not going to fight harder because you're getting paid more. Exactly. You've worked your way there to get there. Your pride is too involved. Your ego's involved. You're too fucking good. Yeah. You want to show everyone

I've always said, look, if you ask a fighter before the fight, hey, how much are you going to win for this? If they're going to get a 40-40, if they're going to get a 50-50, they're going to say $100,000. They've already mentally spent that money. And trust me, it's always, they've got that win bonus in there. 100% true. Kind of impulsive. Fighters aren't the best at saving cash. I know. You know who's good at saving money, though, is Strickland. You would think he'd be the most reckless guy? Very smart. Very smart with his money.

Most of these guys are buying jeans and shirts and glasses. No, no, they're buying... This dude's buying Wranglers and boots. He wears the same thing every day. White beater tank tops. He doesn't have anything expensive. He doesn't care.

But he saves his money, man. He's got a lot of money saved up. Good for him.

Learning how to be frugal is very important. Especially if you're an athlete, any type of athlete.

Especially if you're an athlete like Strickland who still rides a motorcycle. That's a psychopath. I still ride a motorcycle. Are you still? Oh, yeah.

You didn't learn anything from Frank Mir when he broke his femur?

I'm surprised fighters. Frank Mir breaking his femur is what kept me from getting a motorcycle license. That was the last one. Really? Yeah, two friends crashed. One friend wiped out and fucked up his shoulder. And then Frank Mir got T-boned. And I was like, I'm out.

It all comes down. There's the old saying. There's two types of motorcycle riders. Ones that have been down and ones that are going down.

Yeah. And that's just the truth. That's the problem. I felt like I'm hurting myself so many days a week just doing jujitsu. Like doing that on top of that, it's like I don't want to risk.

No.

Yeah.

Especially if you haven't been doing it because there's ways to ride. And you don't ride like you'll see. I can watch people on the road and I go, that dude does not know how to ride.

Scary.

And it's like they're the ones that want. You can just buy a bike.

That's what's scary. You get a license, figure out how to ride it, buy a bike, and you fucking. you know it's like you could go to a car dealership right now and pick up a corvette zr1 you got a 1 000 horsepower car right and like who knows if you know how to really drive that thing you're prepared to drive that that's a fighter jet on wheels this is fucking insane and they just give it to some but it's awesome yeah your parents are rich so you have a fucking fighter jet on wheels

like this is nuts but you know what you're talking about sean strickland with how many cars do you need you know i tell fighters all the time how many cars do you need you know dude i've had arguments with rampage because rampage got eight million cars and i go dude how many cars can you put your ass in at one time right and it's like you're you're blowing through money that you're

you can't get back you can't get back you know and it's like you try to tell cars it's depending on what kind of cars you have some cars are oh if you can if you're gonna do an investment that's fine muscle cars shit like that they're always worth money i think if you're a fighter you need

to take a page out of Forrest Griffin's book, right? With the scion that he won for the Ultimate Fighter one. He drove that thing into the ground. Door handles were off. He had to roll the window down to open the door from the outside. He's such a character. You know, but, I mean, that's how you have to live. If you're going to be a professional athlete, a professional fighter, that's how you have to live, especially early in your career. You don't know how long it's going to last.

Yeah, also, there's something to be said for the comforts of nice things and luxuries kind of slowing you down a little bit. Not everybody Doesn't seem to do it to Arvin Sarukian. No. That fucking dude, he breaks the whole rule book. Rich kid, fights like a demon, built like a Greek god. He is such a stud, man. Constantly competing in wrestling, doing everything. He's wrestling this weekend here at Roth.

Wrestling in Arlington.

Animal.

Yeah. When I saw him last week, I said, just keep doing what you're doing, dude. Just killing it. Just keep doing what you're doing.

I think the best thing that could happen to him is not getting a title fight. That guy's built.

No. I mean, he's capitalized on the bad situation that he put himself in. But it was also the headbutt with Dan Hooker. Absolutely. That was fucking crazy.

Well, because as a promoter, right, you could have cost me all this money if he gets cut. Yeah. If he gets cut, they pull the fight.

That's right. Oh, my God. Can you imagine? Like, come on, knucklehead. Yeah, stop. But I love watching him fight.

What he's been doing with RAF, what he's been doing with his Nina drama stuff and all that stuff. Hey, keep going. Keep going, man. Very smart. People are talking about you. Very smart.

And he is the most interesting contender for Elio Taporia. Absolutely. Without a doubt. Oh, yeah. 100%. Other than Justin, which is going to be wild. But I think him, the skills that he has, the wrestling that he has, and the size, he's a lot bigger than Elio.

You know, I asked DC and Dustin both yesterday on my show. Why do you think people were overlooking Justin?

That's a good question. I mean.

When I look at Gage, I'm like, he's got all the tools and the weapons. Because Ilya Teporia is heavy on the lead leg. Justin Gaethje's got a heavy leg kick. He's got a great uppercut. He's fighting the shorter fighter in Ilya Teporia. He's a bigger guy.

He's a way bigger guy. He's not making 145 ever. No. He's a much bigger guy. He's a really good wrestler, and he's a nasty striker. And he's also kind of a fucking savage. No, he's not kind of. Yeah, I mean, like a real savage, not like pretending. When he fought Michael Johnson in his UFC debut, he just threw himself at Michael Johnson. And he did the same thing with Patty Pimblitt. The Patty Pimblitt fight, he could have fought that fight a lot cleaner. And he just said, fuck you. I'm just going to walk you down and just blast you every chance I get and break you up. And that's what he did. And he's a fucking scary dude, man. Justin's a scary dude. When he's on, and this is the last dance, right?

that he's going to be hyper-focused for this fight. I just can't see why people are overlooking him. They just look at him like, oh, he doesn't have a chance. He's going to get knocked out. I think they're taken away from what. It's just because Ilya is so good.

Because Ilya has done it to all these guys that are also really good. He's got three all-time greats. Yes, in a row. In a row. Three in a row. Max Holloway, Alexander Volkanovsky, and DuBronx, fucking Charles Oliveira. That's crazy. Three KOs. Yes.

I don't hold it against him. But I also, is it kind of somewhere, is there an asterisk next to it a little bit? Because Volkanovsky coming off the head kick knockout loss. Max Holloway cutting from 55 to 45 after putting all the weight on, then getting knocked out. The only one I would say no is Charles, because he goes up, fights Charles. Charles, you know. Charles, no.

Max Holloway, yes, because he cut the weight, but that was his decision. That's right. And no one should have let Volkanovsky take that fight. No. You got head kicked four months ago into a coma. There's no fucking chance you should be taking a fight with the scariest puncher in the division.

Is that a coach's corner family decision? It's him. He's an animal.

He is an animal. He's a fucking animal.

He thinks he can do it. Yeah, but see, that's when you have to have the people maybe in your corner, in your family,

who are saying, hey. I think it's honestly in your family. I think you need someone who loves you.

Someone who is just absolutely, totally honest saying, you can't do this this fast. I'm not saying you can't do it. But you have to do these things to be able to make it to where you have a Ability to take a shot like you used to because it's diminished at this moment

Not just that you have to take into consideration that he gets knocked out and then he goes right into camp Okay, so you're not gonna rest your brain. No, you're just not even if you're just wrestling

You're not resting you can't any time your body your body temperature rises, right? You're damaging your brain right especially if you haven't let it recover yet, and there's no way you let it recover

I mean, he got shinned Shinned to the dome by one of the biggest guys that ever fought at 55. Yeah, Islam's huge Six-foot tall and he fucking takes the fight on 11 days notice with no camp and he's eating barbecue and fucking drinking Fosters All-time great. Oh, no doubt about it. He's an all-time great And, you know, when you go back and look at his fights with Max, like he was the first guy to figure out Max, you know, and then you look at what he did cleaning out the division. I mean, my God, I would have loved to seen a fair shake. I would have loved to see. I would have never advised him to take that fight with Islam on 11 days notice. I don't care what the fucking UFC says.

No.

Go John Jones. What does John Jones do? John Jones had an opportunity to fight Chael Sonnen with very little notice. That's right. He was already in shape. Dan Henderson fight. Nope, won't fight him. Not gonna fight him unless I have a full camp preparing just for him I'm not giving anybody any fucking chances period see ya bye I'm the champ and if Volkanovski had that mindset He would have never fought in Islam unless he went through a full camp again because he almost beat him the first time It was a really close fight the first time the second fight he comes in. He's a little soft He's not in shape his mind's not right. It's also the difference in the weight cut for Islam

Yes, Islam was on 30 30 some hours compared to right

He's on Australia time the first time the second time. He's like fully rehydrated much more time to recover much more dangerous

It was more of the expectation that Volk thought that I'll just do the same thing

I did in the first fight of course because he's an animal yeah, that's where you need your brother You need someone to go dude. I love you. You're an animal. You're one of the greatest of all time But the brain is the brain like there's just certain you don't want to fight with a broken hand, right? Okay, just because you can't see it doesn't mean your hands not your head's not damaged your head's damaged

that's the difference though is exactly what you're saying is the brain doesn't hurt right you know it doesn't have nerve endings and so you can't sit there and say oh man i've got this problem until you end up concussed right until now all of a sudden the headaches are occurring and the bright lights start to bother you and all these things start to add up and you're starting to get mad about things that you can't understand why am i getting mad right now those are the telltale signs of, hey, I need to step away

for a while. Do you remember when Travis Luder fought Oh, yeah. Who was it? Eastman. Eastman. Marvin Eastman. Marvin Eastman. And he caught Marvin Eastman with a punch. It was just a regular punch. Just nothing. Eastman went down. And then we found out later, oh, he got KO'd really bad I think by Tito in training. Yep. And it's like, that's it. He'd been KO'd twice.

Twice in training. Oh, God. You know guys are crazy. You look and you go and that's why he went out the way he did a hundred percent

Because it was weird off of something he never would have been hurt by it was weird Yeah, it was weird. It was like a straight left that caught him at the end of the end of the punch Hardly moved it out cold. Yeah, just fell back. Yeah, cuz his brain was damaged

You got to give your time for full a full time and recover for one five days

Up to six months, eating more fats, more avocados, things like that to help your brain recover. When Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out Pacquiao, Freddie Roach said, you're not doing anything for a year. That's it. One year. And he got his chin back. He took that year off and he came back, actually recovered. But Freddie, being a longtime boxer himself and being around the game and seeing guys getting knocked out and seeing guys jumping back in too quick, he knew.

Freddie being one himself. Yes. Look, people don't realize, Freddie was actually a good boxer. He had a good amateur record. He was doing well in the pros. Do you remember who his trainer was? His trainer was Eddie Futch. Eddie Futch, who was the second trainer for Joe Frazier after Yance Durham died. And Joe Frazier, he was there for the thrill in Manila with Ali and stuff like that. And Eddie Futch told Freddie Roach, son you're taking too many shots you're getting hit with too many good ones you're not responding the same way you're done you got to stop and freddie roach got rid of eddie fudge and continued to fight as a professional and just kept getting knocked out and that was the end of his career and then he became the trainer and and you know you could take a look at a lot of the issues that he has but as much as you're looking at you know you're looking at that with freddie take a look at his brother pepper who took a lot less is worse than freddie i mean pepper's gone now but i mean head shots and trauma to the brain especially when you don't give it the opportunity to rest and heal it will absolutely take and burn your career it'll burn it no doubt and there's no way

to really tell there's so many guys that are damaged and we don't know because you meet them backstage like hey how you doing everything's great but meanwhile it's not great these guys are struggling they don't remember what you just said and then they're talking to people they repeat things over and over and over again

and you can watch I hate to say it there was a fighter fought in the UFC fought in bare knuckle boxing now he's now training guys it's Joey Beltran had a decent career heavy puncher took a lot of damage and I'm just watching Joey Beltran walk off of stairs and having to go one step at a time with each foot and you look and you go damn you know and you and you know hey he's been altered you know he's a great guy but it's like that's what all of this does in the end no doubt you've got to understand that you know you i always i try to tell fighters look you're a ferrari you know you want to be a lamborghini you're a lamborghini but first off it's like you know the whole john jones thing is you know be careful of what you put in its gas tank okay same with you know other guys you know i don't mean to pick out on john but you know we knew he's told the story of what he was doing and so be careful what you put in the gas tank and realize you can only crash that car so many times before it's a piece of junk right and and it's hard to get that through that this is not going to last forever and i'm not going to be the same forever yeah they just don't see it until all of a sudden it's there well that's why it's a

real bummer when you see coaches that you know love the fighters and they haven't stepped in they haven't done anything and they're they're keeping training these guys because they'll lose them yeah exactly and that's what's horrible it's horrible that you you know you have there has to be the kind of relationship where you get to a fork in the road and you go this is what this is yeah like it doesn't mean that your life is over no it's the start of your next life yeah it's just you can't identify yourself well josh you could speak to this because you know you fought at the highest level for a long fucking time. And you stepped away healthy. This episode is brought to you by Tecova's. All right, guys, if you want boots that are made right, you got to check out Tecova's. Their Western boots are sturdy and clearly built to last, but really sharp and premium too. You don't need to break them in either. They're comfortable straight out of the box and great boots for those summer concerts, weddings, work events, whatever. And they're versatile, too. You can wear them with jeans, dress them up or down, whatever you need. Tecovas has all the classic leathers like cowhide and goat, but they've got all the exotics, too, for when you want to level up your look. If you've been thinking about your next pair of boots or, hey, even your first pair, go check out Tecovas in-store or online at tecovas.com. That's T-E-C-O-V-A-S dot com. And right now, get 10% off at tecovas.com slash rogan when you sign up for email and texts. This episode is brought to you by Traeger Grills. If you enjoy food, and I mean really good food, Traeger is a game changer. This isn't just a grill. It's the ultimate way to cook outdoors, delivering unbeatable wood-fired flavor thanks to the all-natural hardwood powder. pellets that fuel everything you grill, smoke, or bake. That's it. Just wood and fire and flavor. And what's truly wild is how easy it is. Just set the temp, load the grill, and let Traeger handle the rest. Grill steak, smoked ribs, even baked pizza, all on one grill. If you're into fire, flavor, and doing things right, check out Traeger Grills.

Yeah, and I had this conversation with Dustin yesterday. I just said, hey, I feel like you could still do it. You're right there. Like, you're one fight away from fighting for another title again. And he's like, it was just the time. And I completely respect that. I said, because he's having time now with his two kids, his wife. He's enjoying his moment. He just got done lifting. He was looking swole. And I was like, it's good to see you. He came on the show. He was all sweaty a little bit. He's enjoying this next chapter of his life. I like when guys go out like Khabib.

Absolutely. They offer him a bunch of money. He's like, no, good, did it, done, bye.

And I hate when people try to rag him on it. It drives me crazy. They sit there and go, oh, yeah, but you could have done this. You could have done that. Fools. He gives zero fucks. It doesn't matter. He doesn't care. He doesn't look at it. Look at what he did.

That's all you need to know. He dominated people that nobody dominated. Oh. And he did it in a crazy way. Speaking of Barboza, I remember that fight where Barboza had that 1,000-yard stare. So do I. In the first round, he was like, oh, my God, this is never going to go my way. No, it's not.

It's not. It wasn't gonna. I actually looked something up the other day. Khabib is the only guy who's never bled inside the UFC octagon. That's crazy. He's the only fighter to never bleed inside the octagon. That's crazy. What have I told you? That's wild. He's the most dominant fighter inside.

John Jones being considered the greatest. John Jones is the greatest as far as you're going to say, who's done it better as far as all the championship fights and all of that stuff? John Jones is the guy. the most dominant fighter I ever stepped into that cage with was Khabib. Look at this. Khabib never

visibly bled, was severely bruised, or was knocked down during his professional

MMA career. Who's the only person you ever saw hurt him?

Conor. Nope. No. Well, Gleason Tebow hurt him a little bit.

You could say Michael Johnson. Michael Johnson. Michael Johnson had one where he gave a little bit of a run. That's right. I was doing that fight. That's right, Michael Johnson. And I was like oh. Yeah, that's right. Michael Johnson caught him. He sucked it right back up. I said, I go

I go, are you hurt? He's like, brother, come on. You know I'm going to hurt.

It was the same.

You talked about Michael Johnson against Gaethje. And after that fight, because I did that fight, and I told Justin, hey, congratulations. That was a great performance. You got hurt. You went through it. He goes, I never got hurt. I go, go watch the video.

I never got hurt. I was like, I never got hurt. Oh, yeah, you got hurt. Those guys went to war. Oh, man. The crazy thing was when Khabib was on top of Michael Johnson, and he was saying, come on, brother. You know I deserve title shot. He was saying, I don't want to do this to you. And then when he almost, when he got him in the Kimura, I was like, please tap. Oh, so you're saying please tap? Yeah. What do you think I'm saying? I think the only reason why I didn't break is Khabib is probably being kind. Yeah. Like he's talking to him. The whole time. The entire fight. You have to give up. He's saying you have to give up. Come on, bro.

You know I need to fight for title.

It's my destiny. I have to fight for the title. Yeah, I need to fight for the title. You know this. I deserve this. You agree? He's like, you agree? He's saying this is why he's beating his ass. Michael Johnson's like, huh? I mean, he was just a motherfucker, dude. So everybody agrees. Everybody agrees. As he's beating his ass, he's saying, see, everybody agrees. Well, how about when he was on top of Conor and he's saying, let's talk now? Oh, yes. He's punching me in the face. Come on, let's talk. Let's talk now. I loved it. He was a monster, dude. Khabib was, I mean, he was just so relentless in that style.

But it's everything to do with his lifestyle. And this is where you get into, you know, you've seen it too many times, champions. And there's been great champions. But when you become the champion, everything in your life changes. The things that come your way change. You know, you get offered things that you didn't get offered in the same way before. You get all these opportunities. And all of a sudden, instead of going to the gym, you're spending the day on a plane going to a location to do something. Sometimes it's for the promotion that you're working for. Sometimes it's for the UFC or whatever promotion there is because they're asking you. So you're missing that day of training. And then you're getting back on the plane. You're coming back the next day. And that's another day that you're missing. He never missed training. He never changed his lifestyle. He did everything the same. And that's why he had the results he got.

Well, for a super successful guy, he's still so humble. He's so normal to talk to. He's so balanced. It's that discipline that he has. The discipline, his religious beliefs, like he's just so rock solid.

The thing about him is that he tries to make sure he puts the guys that had helped get him there, tries to help them get elevated as well.

well you know and that's it kind of what i'm trying to say is that how you've done with your guys with your group of comics and friends you guys all lift each other up he does the same thing with the group of friends that he has so not just like myself and dc and you know islam and those guys i mean like when they go to travel for events he put you know he takes care of the house he makes sure that it's all organized make sure that there's enough room for everyone there's food you know obviously all the guys other guys chip in but it's like he's the one that's kind of organized and everything he's the leader of that team and i'd love seeing somebody that puts that much effort into guys that helped get him there as well yeah no he's a real leader he's a real

leader and now that he's coaching i mean you imagine you're a kid and you need motivation you're literally being coached by one of the greatest combat sports athletes to ever walk on god's earth and and one that did it right the entire time the entire time and is all about discipline and hard work like you couldn't pick a better camp especially if you're a grappling base guy you know like send him to dagestan two three years ago that's the greatest meme of all

time i think what separates you know islam and habib and that whole group is that there's never a moment where they're not training like i was in chicago at one of the events for bellator and we were there and um i was headed down to the bar after the event they were headed to the gym passing me in the elevator to come up and talk to me so i was up there for an hour just chatting with them while they're riding bikes you know lifting weights getting their workout in and everyone else is down at the bar drinking wow you know and so it's it doesn't matter they don't even look at it they don't think about it they just go right to the gym they get their sweat on they're up there for two hours it's not not it's not like this intensity but it's not 25 minutes

yeah right they're just working yeah and then never letting themselves get out of shape no that's it

and then you see them in the morning right when they were living it when they were training out at aka in the mornings you'd see them at the at the track in the mornings they would just jog but then there was little stations where you do sit up some push-ups they would do those and they would do it for two three miles and they'd come to the gym at noon and they'd do their workout sometimes hard sometimes not but they were always training always working and that's what separates them they're not out at the club until two three in the morning then trying to recover the next day

they're not drinking they're not smoking they're not doing the no drinking is huge huge huge if there's one thing that fucks fighters up more than anything it's partying oh yeah drinking especially i guess coke but i don't have a lot of experience with guys that i knew that were doing coke but i have a lot of experience with guys that were drinkers and you would see them in the morning on like they would go out saturday night sunday they'd be fucked up they show up monday to train and they just looked like shit yeah because they had been partying too hard just two days ago and you don't think that that's going to make a big difference but if you're getting drunk on saturday night that's days before you're back to baseline days you know and you can get away with it when you're 23 yeah a little bit kind of but are you because you're probably not as good as you would have been and then maybe you're going to get hit with some shots you wouldn't get hit with? Are you going to get tapped when you wouldn't have got tapped?

And you take a look. That's the big difference. You go back and look at Habib's career. Go back and look at his first fight in the UFC and look at how bad, and I'm serious, how bad his stand-up was. It wasn't the best. Oh, no. It was probably the worst. I don't think it was the worst. It was bad. He did a lot of crazy shit. But take a look at it. Those were his set-ups. When he was at the end. It was tight. He always was improving in everything. Remember, he dropped Conor. He improved throughout.

He cracked Conor with a big right hand, which was like, everybody was like, holy shit.

That was a shocker. I had several conversations with Shob about that because I went down and did his show a couple times in L.A. before that fight. And I said, look, stylistically, Conor's the better striker. I go, but the intimidation of the takedown and the threat of the takedown for Conor is going to make him hesitant. I said, don't be surprised if Habib ends up landing some good hard shots on the feet. That's a giant factor, the fear of the takedown.

The bad about Kevin Randleman when he fought Krokop, when he knocked him out, that was what it was. It was the fear of the takedown, the thinking. The thought process of, I can't let him. Well, you get it. If Kevin Randleman and Krokop fought a straight kickboxing match with no takedowns, Jesus Christ. It's a walk. I mean, you don't want to watch. It would be terrible to watch. But that threat of the takedown is this factor that keeps you from being comfortable. It keeps you from finding your flow state.

That little hesitation opens up so many opportunities to catch him.

Yeah, it's big. It's so big. You see it in fights all the time when a guy just has this extra element. So that's why it's so impressive when you see a guy like Pereira where there's no threat to the takedown. There's no threat. It's not happening. He's not even thinking about taking down. He's just going to fuck you up. And now it's up to you to deal with that.

We just don't have the level of wrestlers these days in the 205 and the heavyweight division to compete with him in the wrestling area.

That's where you have someone like Steveson coming in, Gable coming in the heavyweight division Curtis Blades can wrestle Now Josh Hokett Josh Hokett's the real deal He's a good athlete He's a good all-around athlete He's a character You can go with the shtick He's got his shtick, it's great But also

He put up. He put up. Absolutely. He put up in that Curtis Blades fight. Hello. That fight, as a heavyweight fight, was awesome. It was awesome. Awesome to watch. Terrible for your dome, though. Oh, yes. And that's the crazy thing, that he's going to fight Derek Lewis, who's the biggest knockout puncher in the history of the fucking heavyweight division. More knockouts than anyone. And he's going to fight him, what? How many weeks? Seven weeks? Yeah, seven weeks. Seven weeks? Yep. Seven fucking weeks? Seven fucking weeks. After a war with Curtis. You ever see Curtis Blades' fists? They're like this. They're like that big. They're gigantic. He's a giant man. And he hit him a bunch of times. Oh, he did. Big shots.

And what, look, I got to give it up for Curtis Blaze. What a fight he put on because he took some damage.

He delivered some big shots. He did. Mad heart. Mad heart. Crazy. Crazy heart because he just did not want to lose that shit-talking dude. That's funny. That's the funny thing. It's like, okay, we'll drop the act when you talk to him in real life. And in the ring, you know, in the cage after the fight, I said, dude, that was a fucking amazing fight. And he goes, I talk so much shit. He goes, I talk so much shit.

And then he went and did it again. Fuck it. Little Iliad Tabori is out there trying to pick fights with him, too.

Great. Well, he just talks shit about so many people. He's just trying to get people upset and talk about it.

He's just pushing buttons.

Listen, that's the Conor McGregor game plan. I mean, Conor did it the best. Chael did it. But Chael was the first, really, to do it in MMA. Chael did it. And then Conor took it to another level.

But they kind of stayed in their lane. Like, this is my weight class. This dude doesn't care if you're 135, 145.

He talks a ton of shit. He just wants controversy. He's basically like one of them kick streamers. He's just trying to talk shit as much as possible.

Look what he's done, though, man. He can fight himself. He can fight. And the UFC, for a division that the UFC has, man, they need these people.

I think Gable's the man. That's what I think.

That's your nightmare.

That's Mike Tyson when he was 20. You know what I mean? He's still great.

He's got some work to do, but I'm glad they signed him early. Try to develop him hopefully a little bit. Give him two or three more fights inside the UFC.

The problem is the heavyweight division in the UFC is so shallow that you could see Gable fighting for a title within a year or two. Three fights. Three fights. Could be. Yeah, could be.

He's going to have to learn a lot, though, in that process.

100%. He's got John in his corner. Yeah. He's a giant.

You've got to give him credit, though. He has shown that, you know, first off, he's super fast. Oh, yeah. But he's also got a chin. He got kicked up into the head, neck area. He ate that sucker, you know, and continued on. And you go, well, he's a tank. Don't let that happen again. But, man, you've shown, hey, he didn't let it affect him. He didn't back off.

Well, he's an Olympic gold medalist. I mean, he's a winner.

He is a small heavyweight, though, like that hybrid style heavyweight. Yeah, but that's the best. It is.

Well, he's 250. He's just not tall, but he's wide as fuck. His legs and ass are huge. How about when he had that dirty boxing fight and then leapt over the top rope? Literally. That's the whole thing. Like it was a box of tissues on the ground.

The best one was when he had the first one and he hits the guy. The guy's out going down and he's taking him down.

He shoots a double while the guy's out of cold. That's how fast he is. Yeah, he's the most impressive of the prospects. But, you know, hopefully this is going to excite the – Like when you have a – like every division goes through these peaks and valleys. And when you have a lull, hopefully that's when people come in and they fill that void. And with Francis out of the UFC and it looks like forever.

Which is a shame.

It's a shame. I tried to negotiate that. I tried to bring the two of them back together. I tried to have a sit down. Dana was not interested. He doesn't want to have anything to do with him. It's about interpersonal relationships, interpersonal exchanges that they had that I'm not – I don't know what happened exactly. I just know what Dana told me, and I believe him. So it's like you have the best heavyweight in the world, and he can't fight in the UFC, which is, to me, crazy. I mean, let's do Molly together. Let's work this out. Let's fucking work this out, bro. We can do anything, right? I mean, this is why I'm not a promoter, and it's why I'm not a businessman. But if I was – I would go to dinner with him. Come on, man. I'm sure we could let our differences be a – like, he's not a bad guy. It's just, you know, sometimes people get upset, they say things, like, smooth it out. My experiences with Francis have always been super positive. I enjoy talking to him.

Francis has been nothing but kind to me and everybody I've introduced him to and stuff. He's always great.

He's the scariest fucking heavyweight on planet Earth.

Dude, he's huge. He's huge. I was at an awards thing, and Misha Tate and Rashad Evans and I and my wife were taking a picture, and all of a sudden there's shadow comes over the top of us and it's Francis with his arms out like, hey, right? It's like, what the hell? When you get a natural 265, a guy's... and shredded cutting weight to make 265 that's yeah I mean he's he there's many fights where he was like 270 275 oh yeah he would drop a little bit of weight to make the 260 which is also stupid why is there a 265 pound weight limit for the heavyweight division that's nuts isn't that nuts

yeah I know why

you eat those really big guys

it was like Lorenzo Lorenzo was you know looking at it saying here I don't want fat guys really that's what you know because you had What about Roy, big country?

Everybody loved big country when he was in.

But it was, at the time, in MMA, you had no weight limits. Roy was lovable. To a point. Love Roy. No weight limits. And that whole thing was, he looked and said, I don't want a bunch of fat guys. We've got to cut it off at a certain point because I'm not going to have super heavyweight. And they never did.

Well, not having super heavyweight is fine, but merge it. It's ridiculous. If a guy is like Value F, remember Value F? Oh, yeah. The Russian guy was seven feet tall, fought Holyfield. Let him fight!

David Hay beat him. Remember that one?

Oh, that's right.

David Hay. And David Hay's a small heavyweight in comparison. Oh, yeah.

Holyfield beat him, too, right? Didn't Holyfield beat him?

No, I don't think. Holyfield didn't fight, Valium.

I think they did. Did they? I think they did. Look that one up. I think they did. I might be wrong.

I don't think. I'm not sure if Vander fought him. David Hay beat him. I know that. Might be wrong.

Oh, there they are. Yeah. Oh, that's him. Yeah. 2008 Crazy And Evander Holyville Was a cruiserweight Remember when he fought Dwight Muhammad Kawi Who was 5'7 Oh yeah Kawi was a 5'7 cruiserweight And he would get underneath Dude He was like He was a nightmare to deal with He was a mini Joe Frazier Bro he was a tank Yeah That guy was And he would pull his trunks Way up to here Oh he did Dude Right under his nipples It was crazy Oh value of one Yeah Highly disputed That's what it is majority decision that's where you get a fucking referee in your corner that's when look at the

look at the age of evander yes 46 which is crazy that's crazy yeah it is crazy it's crazy when you

see these guys that were you know you're like oh wow yo romero can do it okay listen no he's a

he is a distinct from earth okay this is where this whole ufo thing comes in here is the proof of yes there are aliens and yoel romero is one of them yeah it's wild he is built differently than every other human being on the face of this planet.

I told this story before. I don't know if you guys heard it, but this actually happened. One of his fights, he had broken his orbital. The UFC brings him to a doctor. The doctor says to him, to the UFC, where did you get this guy? And they go, he's pretty awesome. He goes, no, no, no. I've never seen a human built like this before. They said his tendon in his eye were three times larger than a normal person's. They said the orbital bone is already healing. Like, this is crazy. I need no medicine. So then there's some questions. It's like, you know, listen, the Cubans are very connected to the Russians. We're very connected to science. It's wild. I mean, you've got to think, if you had a kid and you knew this kid was going to be wrestling, bang, bang, bang, when he's coming up, you could make a totally different kind of kid. I read a story about this guy and his son started showing androgenic effects very early on. They were freaked out. Like the kid was getting, like his dick was growing, he was getting hair. They're like, what the fuck is happening to this baby? And they realized that the dad had testosterone cream. So the dad was taking testosterone cream and he's hugging the baby and, you know, bare chest to bare chest.

It's transferring. He's literally juicing up his fucking kid. Have you seen Andre Smaev? Yes. Holy Jesus Christ. Jamie, pull up that guy. Andre Smaev is a, he's a, he's kind of a hybrid. He's a bodybuilder, powerlifter, strongman, arm wrestler. He's 350 pounds. I mean, 27-inch arm or something like that.

His hands are so big, they look like catcher's mitts. Look at his hands. Have you heard? You know what he's taking? Look at that 2016 to 2026. Look at the difference.

2016, look at his hands. Yeah, look at his hands' difference. His hands are huge because he takes... Growth hormone? Oh, yeah. Everything. He takes 1,000 units of growth hormone a day. That's 10 vials. What?

He does?

Yes. He's going to die. Whoa. You cannot take that much. Is that real? That's insane. Yeah.

1,000? Oh, my God. Look at the size of him.

That's so crazy. That dude does one-arm pull-ups at 350 pounds. That's nuts. I mean, he is absolutely... And he has a regular job. He's 27 years old.

Look at him. He looks like he's 50. Yeah, he looks at least 50. It doesn't he have a factory job? I think he has a regular job. So it's not even he's not even doing it for money Oh, no, but it's crazy when you see him when he was young like look at that. That's him. That's the same guy I mean that that looks like a regular athlete. He is a regular athlete there and then

And then all of a sudden he becomes this fucking immense freak. He is. He must have done a lot of testosterone to lose all of his hair like that. He did everything. He's done everything there is. Whatever you got, give me it. There's a lot of those dudes. This episode is brought to you by Manscaped. Wondering what to get your dad on Father's Day? The beard and dome bundle for Manscaped is a really solid option. I've been using their dome shaver for a while now. And the thing I like about it is how easy it makes everything. You don't have to think about it. It just glides over your head, gets everything clean, no weird patches, no going over the same spot 10 times. Honestly, it's so much better than any of the other brands I've tried. And then there's the Beard Hedger. It's got this zoom wheel with 20 different length settings that's built right in. So if you want to get your dad something he'll actually use, the Beard and Dome bundle for Manscaped is an easy pick. Get 15% off plus free shipping with the code rogan15 at manscaped.com. That's 15% off plus free shipping with code rogan15 at manscaped.com. This episode is brought to you by Fast Growing Trees. Did you know Fast Growing Trees is America's largest, most trusted online nursery? With over 2 million happy customers, they carry thousands of trees and plants that are grown with care and guaranteed to thrive. From privacy and fruit trees to shrubs, flowering trees, houseplants, and more, fast-growing trees makes it easy to find plants that truly work for you delivered to your door. And no matter where you're starting or what you're dreaming of for your yard, their plant experts are there to support you every step of the way. Plus, every order is backed by their Alive and Thrive guarantee. Just quality plants you can count on, no green thumb required. Right now, Fast Growing Trees has great deals on spring planting essentials with up to half off select plants. And as a listener of our show, you get an additional 20% off your first purchase when you use the code JRE at checkout. Do you know about that guy Tom Haviland? Oh, yeah, from Australia. Six foot eight, 400 pounds.

That dude, you take a look at him. he is he's unique in the fact he doesn't do the normal workouts and stuff right he does basic farm stuff he picks up you know things farmer walks with stuff that's ridiculously he does like a lot of picks up axles and weird shit dude but he's six foot eight and let's say 330 pounds

more not trying to get to four he was trying to get to four so he's in the 390s he was like this So he's building up to 400 pounds, but shredded and preposterously strong. Yeah. Like farmers. He's always working out when you can't see him. Yeah, you see his back, and he's always wearing clothes, which is very odd. But there's photos of him without the clothes. And it's almost like he's building a masterpiece, and he wants to reveal it once he's done painting. See if you can find some pictures of what he actually looks like, because occasionally they show his body. He always takes all the stuff from behind. Like, that's him. Fucking bro. Wow. Look at that. That's him right there. Look at that. That's fucking insane. Oh, he looks young. He is young. I don't think he's that old. He is young. I think he's, like, maybe 30 or something. Damn. It's nuts. Yeah, he is. Gigantic dude. 6'8", 385. What the fuck? What the fuck? Now, imagine if he wanted to fight MMA, and they're like, well, sir, you've got to lose 110 pounds. Fuck off. That's crazy. Fuck you. Okay, hold on.

Hold on. Think about this. Look at that. You're the heavyweight that they want to put him against. Yes, there's a weight class.

Listen, I think this should be a 225 and then it should be chaos. 225 and then chaos. I agree. And let the freaks in. Let them Iceland dudes in.

I mean, some of the most entertaining fights in Pride, right, were the freak fights.

Yeah. Here's the thing, though. That guy's going to melt your piss cup. Oh, yeah.

100%. So just like in Pride. Just like in Pride.

If you put that fucking guy in one of them tester machines, it would ding like one of those cartoon things where you put the mallet and it hits the bell. There would be fireworks going off, streamers coming down. There's not a chance that guy's on the natch. But that's just like pride, you know? Yeah, exactly like pride. Yeah, pride.

Everybody was juicing that. They just had the enhanced games. I know. But it didn't do that well.

Only one world record was broken in the 50-yard.

Yeah, really, that was a 50-meter swim. But they were wearing a suit wearing a suit that's illegal. Yeah, because it makes you slippery

Yeah, it was it was a guy that had already beaten the world record like I don't know a couple years back

Yeah, I'm since it's no one really it wasn't that successful And I talked to a friend of mine about it and he was like I think first of all they're not like Monitoring everything everyone's doing they're not optimizing them if you really want to juice these people up you can't let them do it themselves yeah you've got to have like a whole program where you put them on this stuff but also like what are we doing did you hear what

you hear the reason why they're doing it why they the whole thing is kind of like red bull you know how red bull does all the crazy you know different stunt stuff and everything their whole thing is they are a they're a company that gives out or you know puts out these monthly things of TRT and all these different, you know, things with testosterone and stuff. So they did this whole thing as an advertisement basically for people to see that being enhanced is better and that you'll come and now sign up for it. I think it's $399 a month for your whole thing to be able to, yeah, $399 a month.

The enhanced program. There you go. It's the enhanced program. Okay. Thank you, Jamie. So when did they- When we had them on, Jamie, did they bring this up? I don't think they did. maybe they adopted this later because we had them on about a year before they were going to do the games and I was like, let's go juice them up, juice everybody up What about enhanced fight

games?

Very interesting, the Vitor Belfort days The whole question is this when you truly look at it because I look and say, look, if you open it up to everyone, then it's someone's choice, you're going to hear all that thing, well, you can do it if you want, you don't have to do it, but But it's different when you're lifting a weight or you're swimming in a pool or doing those things or you're beating on another human being. There's a difference. You're creating damage in the sport of fighting.

100%.

Do you want to enhance someone in being able to do that?

You're also enhancing your ability to take damage. You can take that into consideration. You're going to get hit with less shots because you're going to have more endurance because you're going to be on EPO. That's always good for you, too. Super good. The strokes that you get on EPO are the best. But I mean, I've got to think there's a way to do all those things if you're monitoring your blood work and you're being very careful where you don't go crazy like the Russian cat.

You know people, that's human nature. Yep.

You're right. One step, take another. Yep. Yeah, definitely. And if that guy has skills, imagine that guy. Oh, my God. Imagine if you got Fedor, and you go, bro, you want to keep fighting? I got you. I know you're 49, but listen.

That's only biological. I can make you 32 again.

Yeah. We get you in a hyperbaric chamber every day for two hours, and this is what we're going to do. Testosterone in the morning, testosterone at lunch, testosterone at night.

And a little growth after.

Oh, growth is all day long. You're taking growth from the moment you wake up. We're going to get you up to about 290 shredded.

We're going to peptide you. I think part of the attraction to Fedor, though, is his belly. 100%. You lose that, and I'm like, ah, it's not about Fedor.

I mean, imagine Lorenzo saying, I don't want fat guys to fight, and you see Fedor.

He did everything he could to get Fedor.

Yeah, well, they did. They really did. I remember those days. It was kind of crazy. He was negotiating with some dangerous characters, and Dana was like, we've got to up our security. This is getting heavy with these guys. They wanted a piece of the promotion.

That was the whole – everyone talks about that and stuff. Look, it wasn't Fedor. Fedor would have fought for anyone, and it wasn't the price of what he wanted for money. It was M1 was associated. Vadim Finkelstein was Fedor's manager. He had M1, and he wanted a co-promotion with the UFC. No, we can't do that. That's the one thing we can't do. And that was the end all right there.

Yeah, which is unfortunate, right? Oh, totally. We missed out on the greatest matchup of all time between Prime Kane and Prime Fedor. Prime Kane and Prime Fedor would have been fucking nuts. Yeah, I agree. I mean, absolutely nuts. Nobody had a gas tank like Kane.

Nobody. I just talked to him yesterday, Kane, and I was just talking to him about it. I said, if there's one fight you could come back for, and he's like, ah, you know, I'm really, like, he's not, he's just, he's completely checked out of the fight thing.

No, he's not checked out of the fight. I mean, he's doing a great job of training guys. To me, he's back doing it. He's not. He's not? No, he's not. Just talking to him. Uh-uh. I was just talking to him at the fights last week.

No, he's just like, no, I'm kind of just disconnected. He's just trying to get his life back. Well, understandable. Yeah. Understandable. That's the one fight. I said, if there was one fight I could pick for you, it'd be Fedor. That'd be the one fight I'd want to see out of him. We missed that.

It's funny because everyone talks. I agree with you completely. Everyone talks about the fight that they would have put together would have been Brock against Fedor. Yeah. And I look and I go, yeah, it's probably not that good of a fight.

Yeah, it's like Brock would have had such a hard time standing up with that guy. Well, a good example, like the Brock fight to me that was like kind of the craziest fight was Alistair.

juicy. Uber-eam. Uber-eam. The most juicy he ever is. That wasn't juice, that was horse meat. That was everything.

That was horse meat. He definitely ate some horse meat. Oh yeah, he did. No doubt about it. He was also eating pills. There was a lot going on, but he was a monster. He was huge. World-class kickboxer. You see him now? Yeah. He's like a vegan now. He doesn't look anything like he did. He looks like he did.

He's back to his pride days. Slung down, looking good.

Back to his supermodel days. Good for health. By the way, that guy's KO'd a ton of times seems fine like he did the commentary during the Usyk fight the Rico fight and it was like guy is fucking talking great

He's like smooth and articulate. It's not and not everyone gets affected the same way right and it is You know there is you there's little factors and you can see the difference there are guys you know that are been Boxers with 70 professional fights They do they talk fine and everything's good. There's also a gene

It's called APOE4 And if you have that like what is it? How does it work? If you have it you're protected or if you have it you have the problem So there's one this one gene expression that makes you more likely to get CT. Yeah for whatever easy. Yeah What is it? It was it put it put that into perplexity and see what it says about There's a gene that you have in your body that yeah Some people haven't some people don't and if if you have the whatever it is where this gene expression I'm a moron. I'm not the guy to talk about this. But Dr. Rhonda Patrick talked about this. And she was saying essentially that if you have this, here it is. APOE4 appears to increase the risk of severity of chronic traumatic encephalopathy in people with significant repetitive head impacts, but is a modifier of risk, not a cause by itself. So, meaning, obviously- If you have it and you're not taking headshots, you're okay. It doesn't do anything. Right. But if you have it, so scroll back up again, please. A large post-mortem study of 364 people with RH1-294 with CTE-70 without, carrying APOE-4 was associated with more advanced CTE stage and higher tau protein burden in the frontal lobe. But mainly in those older than 65. But that's just because they haven't been testing all the MMA fighters or all the boxers. You know, because, like, if you really – you're just testing regular folks or football players. probably it's like football players is probably in the country the most people that have had trauma absolutely because you think about high school kids even junior high kids before that yeah i mean they did a study of i forget how many different people but they found that everyone it was like nine out of ten had it in every group whether it was high school kids college kids some level of cte which is nuts yeah not just nfl not just college high school kids this is everything

everything that we've learned and we know today comparatively i'm from here i'm going to florida for the association of ringside physicians they have their annual conference and they put on all these different things and we you know put together programs for down fighter things and all this stuff but we know so much more now joe it used to be you know i would go in and do a presentation for him and it was one of the first things when I first did it I asked him a question the real simple question was let me ask you this if a guy gets hit with a shot boom and he's out going down and he hits the ground and the fighter comes in and hits him with a shot is it possible for him to hit him with a shot and actually wake him back up every one of them back then no that's impossible all it will do is intensify the effects of the first shot all this stuff and i took a dvd i said let's watch what fight did you use i had a bunch you know and it was a matter of it was trying to show them hey all these things that we think are just not true okay when we have to we have to branch out and start to figure this stuff out a little bit more because it you know in boxing it's different because boxing establishes time for me to make decisions mma takes that time away because i have a fighter that is now instead of walking towards or, you know, trotting towards a neutral corner or something like that. They're trotting towards that person to do more damage to them. And so you're making that quicker decision. And, you know, we've had too many fights where we have someone that, you know, they're out going down and then hit the ground and you have to actually wait. You know, I just had, you know, one last week with Jason Jackson is fighting his opponent, Jeff Creighton and Creighton gets hit and he's going down and I'm going in to stop it and i see he starts sitting up and i go i gotta wait and it's like i don't want to wait don't sit up and he comes back boom hits him goes out i stop it but it's like those are the ones that you look at and you go man to understand the way the human body everyone responds differently in certain situations but we've learned more as far as the human body will do weird

things in traumatic situations and it is the ability to hit someone and to take those synapses that are connected and to separate them there is no difference in being able to hit them and putting them back that's crazy they can get snapped the same way yeah that'd be crazy yeah

it's nuts in the Hermes Franca fight in UFC 47 46 don't go back too far too far but we're in the third round I catch his leg and he throws a little loopy shot and drops me I have the leg in my hand and I'm just going, I can see my face headed towards the canvas. My eyes are wide open, but I can't put my hands in front of my face. My face bounces off the canvas. It wakes me up, and then I start fishing for legs. Wow. It was just, I can see everything. I can hear everything. I just couldn't put my hands in front of my face. And my face hits the canvas. I wake back up, and he starts jumping on me. I start trying to fish for legs and trying to get to guard, and that's how that goes. Wow. The first thought to go through his head is,

I hope I didn't damage my face because I'm so good looking, right? Jealous.

It is a problem.

This guy's jealous over here. I told you the whole time, man.

But actually, you violated the stereotype that good-looking guys can't fight. Oh, yeah. There was a little bit of a stereotype that good-looking guys, when push comes to shove, they're going to fall apart because they're too good-looking. They don't want to get fucked up.

I don't think so. Not true. I've seen too many good-looking guys. Look at Rico. Look at Rico. Hell yeah.

Verhoeven's a fucking model. Yeah, he is. He's a beautiful man. That guy came to AK and trained with Kane in D.C. for a couple weeks. That guy's a fucking murderer. Oh, yeah. He's a murderer. And, like, when we were talking earlier about the fight and him, his boxing is really good. His cardio, like you guys were talking about, is fantastic. But, man, he has no fear of being taken down. He has no fear of any of these guys. Kane and DC didn't care. He would fight them to the death on defending takedowns. They were like, man, DC was the—as soon as they got, they touched gloves, he would just right to the legs. You know, he almost fought in the UFC.

Yeah. They offered him Derek Lewis. But then the Usyk fight came up. And it was like, listen, this is $15 million. Oh, yeah. $15 million. And look what happened. I mean, amazing choice because in most people's eyes, he won most of the rounds of that fight.

Go back and look at some of the fights. That one right there, okay, it's the most recent. Look at Francis Ngannou against Tyson Fury and look at the scoring on that one. Go back to Conor McGregor versus Mayweather because no matter what you want to say, Conor won the first couple rounds. because Mayweather didn't throw any punches. This whole thing about, oh, general ringmanship, bullshit. You're not throwing punches, you're not winning a fight. It's a fight. It's not a dance. It's not how pretty you look. And so you can go back, and I can tell you, I've talked with some of the judges off of the Mayweather-McGrady. They go, I made a mistake. I gave credit where I shouldn't have given credit. It's like, how?

Interesting.

I think it's easier for the heavier weights, though, to go up to boxing and have a little bit more success than it would be for the smaller guys. Like, Ilya Teporey to fight Bud Crawford?

Oh, no, no, stop, stop. That's crazy.

You know what I mean? That's my point. The level of boxing talent there with Bud and Ilya, it's not even close. It's not even close.

Bud's one of the greatest to ever do. Absolutely. Absolutely. But Ilya maybe could be if he just went into boxing. Yeah. I mean, the fucking guy's hands are insane.

Bud Crawford could go to MMA. That dude can wrestle. Right. Okay? So I would love. I mean, obviously it's not going to happen just because of the money you can make boxing is not the same.

And also, he's another guy that's like, I'm done. I don't have to do this anymore. Oh, dude. I did all I wanted to do. Multiple division weight champion, undefeated. Bye. Made a ton of money. See ya. Beat Canelo and boxed the brakes off of him.

Boxed the ears off of him. Crazy.

When he was pity pat punching him and then hitting him with big shots, like that's what you do to someone when you're playing.

He had Canelo so absolutely frustrated during that fight. But I remember watching. I was in New York, Gleason's gym. Terrence Crawford is there. And he is boxing all these guys and just playing. Just absolutely, you know, come on, next one. And touch, touch, touch. He never tried to hurt any of them, never tried to throw a big punch. You just look and you go, how good is this guy? He is that.

He's that guy. He's one of the best switch hitters to ever do it. Oh, yeah. In my opinion, it's like him and Hagler. Yeah. They're like right there together. It's wild. Greatest switch hitters. He could box you southpaw, and then all of a sudden he's orthodox, and you're like, oh, no.

And, dude, the funny part about him is, you know, you see it in MMA. Guys will switch when they take a step and throw a punch, and they'll switch to a different... He does the same thing, and he does it and then takes a lateral movement that had Canelo like, where the hell is he? Yeah. And he's going, hi, bap, you know? Yeah.

and you go oh my god he's so goddamn good he hit canelo with a straight left and then canelo went to counter and he had the hand still out there and he threw it turned it into a left hook yeah and i was like good lord yeah it was so pretty you could see canelo's like here i come back bang He gets dinged with the left hook.

I'm like, that is crazy speed and precision and technique. I've said this before. I've sparred with Robert the Ghost Guerrero because he lived in Gilroy. And we would train together all the time. He would use me for the – I'd be in fight shape, ready for my UFC fight.

Just judge his son's fight.

Yeah. Literally, I'd show up. I was the first four rounds of a 12-round session. He knew a new training partner every four rounds. This guy would just piece me up. He would just toy with me. And it was embarrassing. I'm like, I'm in the best shape of my life. But by round four, I was exhausted. And he was barely touching me. Just touch, touch, touch, move, slip out the side, slip out the side. So good. And he wasn't at Mayweather's level. He's fought Mayweather, but he wasn't that level of slickness. But he made it look like it when I was in there with him. It's all in comparison. So good.

I mean, there's guys that look. Look at Jack Della Maddalena when he fought Carlos Prates. You're like, Jack Della Maddalena is one of the scariest strikers in the sport. And then he fights Prates, you're like, oh, levels.

Oh, there is a difference.

Levels. There's levels.

That's what you try to – and everyone has this idea. We talk about it all the time, and I go, you don't understand the difference this much makes in the difference of how you compare in a fight with somebody. Levels. Oh, my God.

Levels, especially when you get a guy like Protes that had so many high-level Muay Thai fights. That's the big difference. These guys that with only striking, they develop an understanding of positions and technique that's just not available if you're training the other stuff too. And so then they get to this like Pereira they get to this super high level at this one thing and then they incorporate the other stuff But that other left you're not gonna catch them You're not gonna catch protest when it comes to Muay Thai that step in fucking Tomahawk elbow that he does holy shit, dude, and he's playing and he smokes Marlboros He smokes marlboros in the back. Oh, it's crazy. He's getting ready for the fight and he's smoking blunts

What was the guy that fought Delahoya that would come out?

Oh, yeah, but I mean may orga was never at the level of practice practice like is so fucking slick man Some of the shit that he was doing to JDM like JDM is a fucking killer And he had no he was drowning. He was drowning and it was it's also like what is going on with his limbs? It's like crazy like he says he's six foot one the fuck out of here, bro I want to measure your height and your length, because I think there's some bullshit. Yeah, he's just all legs and arms. I think he did this for his reach. His reach is nuts! When you see him in there, he's like all arms and legs. And the technique is so beautiful. It's so beautiful. The setups, when you think he's punching, he's kicking the fuck out of your calf, and he's like slowly breaking you down. Slowly breaking. And the knee, that fucking knee that comes out like a jab, his knee is nuts, man.

You go back to his fight with Gary, you know, and you look at, you know, Gary was doing great. That last round, you know, he came back on it. And you look and you go, man.

If this was five rounds, it'd be a real problem.

Hello.

But it also shows you how fucking good Ian Gary is, man.

Oh, absolutely. That's the whole point. It shows how good he is because he has gone against guys that are a real problem as far as stylistically. His fight against MVP, Ian Gary fought as smart as you could fight and did a wonderful job in showing, hey, I'm multifaceted. I'm not just this one-style fighter.

With Protas, when he knocked out Leon Edwards, I was like, oh. I knew he was really elite, but I'm like, Leon's so technical and he's so slick. And Protas is not going to try to take him down. I'm like, this is going to be a very interesting fight. But it wasn't. It was Kyle's Protas show. He put on a fucking show.

The relaxation, the comfortness of being out there. Also, too, Leon understanding, like, I was the champion. I'm not the champion. It's hard to get back there. The mindset has changed a lot.

It's been hard for Leon ever since when he lost that title fight against Muhammad. And you look and everything that's happened to him since, it's just, you know, confidence is everything.

Yeah. Well, the Sean Brady fight might have been even more brutal than that because Sean just mauled him. Mauled him. When Sean gets on top of people, like, what did he do to Joaquin Buckley? It was bananas. No, it wasn't.

I look at that, and this is why. Sean Brady won against Craig Jones. Okay, now it was an advantage as far as winning, but he grappled against the real Craig Jones and showed that he can stay with them.

Right, but you know in that match, Craig was not allowed to use leg locks. You know that, right? That's crazy. That's like fighting Ernesto Hoost and you only can kick above the waist. you know what I'm saying

well that's just for your Rick Rufus that's a smart idea yeah

but you know what I'm saying it's like Craig Jones you gotta give him his full game you can't have him thinking oh I can't do this yeah that's true he's taking away 50% of his attacks but it shows you how good he is is really good elite

But it was just the ability to hold him down was just shocking. I mean, it was like, God. And then when he was mounting him, it just, like he was doing drills. It wasn't, it was just like staying calm and just bang, bang, bang. It was like he was doing conditioning drills on a heavy bag. Like he was just sitting on a heavy bag, pounding on the bag. Time.

He was. Bro, it was nuts.

I said this, maybe I caught some flack for it a little bit. But I said like, look, I think the Ian Gary fight and the Protest fight for Islam, both those fights, I'm not saying they're easy fights because they're not. but you put someone like Sean Brady against Islam and that becomes a little bit of a problem a little bit more difficult but that's matchups styles make matchups

when you look at someone's style comparatively one person is easy for someone or they're very difficult for someone else if you're going to put someone against Islam as far as it's going to be on the ground with him and give him difficult times there's not a big enough

sample size for me with Michael Morales I think Michael Morales could be a big threat on the feet, the wrestling.

People are going to say, well, he beat Sean Brady, so obviously. Yeah, stopped him.

Yeah, yeah. But the size, I think, of Michael Morales will give Islam some problems as well. And Michael Morales can fucking wrestle. Right? Yeah. It's not like he's just a boxer. He's an Ecuadorian national champ, I think is what he was. And then, you know, he's obviously got power. But he's super athletic.

Islam doesn't do the normal wrestling. Nope. His takedowns are different.

Yep.

A lot of foot sweeps, a lot of judo, a lot of difference in the way he does things.

And world championship experience. Yes. And also the years of training with Khabib. Yeah.

Years. What he does so well is he does it off a transition. As soon as you punch you guys anywhere inside the clinch, he's already hitting the foot sweep into the inside trip. Can't get it? Okay, I'll drop him down on a single or a double.

You know who I'm excited about at 170 is Amosov. Oh, dude. That Ukrainian cat. Oh, yeah. We know. Of course you know.

Look, he's good. He is absolutely the real deal.

Yeah.

He is good everywhere.

Everywhere.

And his wrestling and his grappling ability, his submission ability, is at the top of the field. It's right there with Sean Brady. Am I lying?

No, no, it is. It is. There's one guy out there, though, and he was just talking about him. He's the one guy that he lost to who's not signed by the UFC, and that's Jason Jackson. He's the one guy to beat him. I'd love to see Jason Jackson in the UFC.

Where's Jason now?

He just fought an MVP. Just fought an MVP. Won in like 10 seconds. 22 seconds. 22 seconds.

I had a hard night. I had 22 seconds and 17. It was very difficult. I was exhausted.

But he's the only one, he's the only guy to beat Jaroslav Amoslav. Wow. He is. He's fantastic on the feet. He has a wrestling background, but he chooses to stand. He's got like 30 jobs, a coconut stand, a car washing stand. He's got all kinds of business. He works. He works all the time. Dude, he's a working man. He's a working man. But he's very talented. I love watching that guy fight. I think him, you add him against a Prathis or against an Ian Gary, these guys would duke it out. It would be a great fight.

It's interesting when there's guys that are at that level that aren't known. Yeah.

And he's a former champion. Jason's been there. You've got to figure he was in the UFC as far as the ultimate fighter when they did that whole Black Zillions versus ATT. Oh, that's right. He was part of that.

That's right.

And he's just always been on the cusp of being brought back in. You look and you go, he's got all the talent in the world. And he's tough as hell. He'll fight.

He is tough.

Who is that cat, that heavyweight, that just knocked out Hennon Ferrer?

Oh, that's Sergei Bilistino.

And he's one of Fedor's boys, right? He is now. He is now, yeah. That dude. Yeah. That dude's scary. Well, the other one.

Bilistini, he's, dude, that dude is yoked. Yoked and moves fast. He's fast and he's got power.

But then you also got Nemkov. Nemkov's at heavyweight now.

Yeah, and Vadim Nemkov.

He's another guy that's at the top of the heap that's not in the UFC.

Vadim Nemkov is good and man he is

extremely athletic, he's not a big heavyweight, he's got great lateral movement he's really good with his hands, beautiful kicks

yeah he was a 205 and he can wrestle

he chooses to stand but he'll mix up the wrestling and kind of get you guessing

and he's another Fedor guy that's another one training under Khabib if you're a Russian guy, training under Fedor good lord, what a crazy

opportunity. Yeah, but you've got to live in Stario School.

Do you really? That's where they live? That's where they live, man. Oh, boy. Oh, yeah. No parties there. Nope. You better have snow tires, too. Oh, yes, you better. Thick clothing. Thick clothing, snow tires, and hate comfort. Oh, my God. You're sleeping on a futon, bitch.

Yeah, there's a lot of talented guys that will come out of other promotions, but I'd love to see Jason Jackson in there mixing it up with those guys. That'd be great. Because stylistically, the matchups are there. And the Protis and Gary. and the 170s right now

and putting Jarosz when the UFC finally signed him I said thank God he deserves to be there and they need that kind of and look he's gone in and

You know dude his fight against Joel Alvarez and Joel Alvarez is a good fighter. I mean he made him look Absolutely Like the guy didn't know hardly anything. Yeah, I watched it yesterday. I watched it again I mean you just wanted the last takedown, you know the when he when he air bored them. Oh my god And you look at me and but look at the ease that he did it with yeah, that's the thing it's like Spectacular technique. Oh, my God.

And the tightness of his grappling is insane.

And his training partner is Johnny Ebelin. Ah. Same guy that's training partner now for Sean Strickland. Ah. And Johnny, those guys go after each other daily.

And Johnny will tell you, he's the one that gives him the most fits inside the gym. The one that I spar with the most, the one that just gives me all the fits. On the grappling, the wrestling, all those things. Go back to his fights, too, in the past when he fought Ed Ruth. He hip-tossed Ed Ruth, took Ed Ruth down, three-time national champ out of Penn State. I mean, he was having success against him. It was a very close fight, you know, and he ended up winning the fight, but it was one of those fights where you're like, damn, you walked away going, this guy can wrestle, this guy can stand. He's chasing submissions. He's trying to get finishes. I mean, he had takedowns against Logan Storley, a six-time state champ out of South Dakota. Four-time All-American, Minnesota. And a four-time All-American out of Minnesota. Just phenomenal, phenomenal wrestler, but he's able to have exchanges with these guys, chasing anacondas darces knee bars everything extremely talented there's a lot of guys that i would love to see to kind of mix in because every time because when you look at the history of the sport you got like strike force when it came into to ufc those were the best fights and you start pulling plucking i'm not saying that a lot of these guys need to come in right now but if you can pluck one or two guys for each division it starts sprucing this whole thing up because for a little bit before the paramount deal happened you know because i cover this i cover it every fight every week right and we talk about on the pod it just simply put everyone's like man these fights are trash they're garbage just and i'm like guys are being complainers like this the cards are great you guys are just they're used to that that the next level of like the the connors

and the stars yeah on every card just technique and just fighting ability there's some amazing

fights out there amazing fights when you add in someone like when michael chandler came in there was a lot of hype around it when patricio came in and and uh erin pico when they came in there's a lot of hype around it it kind of puts a little shot in the arm into the weight class and gets everyone amped up the fighters that are there the ufc they're like this guy ain't fucking beating me i'm not letting this bum from this that's good promotion beat me and then the fighters that are coming in are like no i'm here to shoot i'm here to prove that i deserve to be here so it's it kind of it gets the fans amped up it gets the promotion amped up and the divisions kind of it's a little little bit of a spark so i'd love to see that happen a little bit more absolutely absolutely

You know, the Pico thing is really interesting. It's like his last fight, he looked so tight against Pitbull. He looked so good. Everything looked so smooth. Like his boxing was flowing. His transitions to grappling was flowing. He fought intelligently. Like that's the Pico that we needed to see.

Yeah, but you take a look at his first fight against Lerone. And I always say that was a Pico that was pressing. He was pressing that fight and making, you know, look at taking chances obvious absolutely that he's coming and you look and you go this is the difference between you know that first fight in the UFC and wanting to do so well and wanting to prove how good you are and stuff and then finally relaxing and just hey let the fight come to me let me show what I can do and taking those moments when you get him that's what he did in his fight against Patricio and look Patricio is good and and Pico Pico could be so good he just has to relax. He's still young.

He's had a bunch of pretty bad

chaos. Yes, he has. The Borax one. That's a problem. Borax, you had the one against freaking Corrales. He hurt Corrales and then he got starched. He's had a couple of them. In both those fights he was winning.

He was beating Borax and then he was beating Corrales. The fights that he lost was so hyper-aggressive.

That's part of the problem. He's so fucking good.

He's got the best left hook to the body since Paul Daly. Oh, it's so smooth. Oh, my God, it's beautiful.

I mean, just his left hook period. It's like such a whip. The technique is so smooth. It's so nice. So I got to ask you about the Joe Schilling fight because it was such a weird stoppage where Joe just decided, that's it, I'm quitting. So his opponent headbutts him.

Yeah.

And then Mike Beltran, who's a great referee, takes a point away.

He did take a point.

And then puts him right back in the same position.

Okay, stop. That's not exactly what happened. It's not? No. Well, it is what happened. Yes, you're right. But when you have a situation like that and you have the headbutt, Mike Beltran calls a stop, calls timeout, gets them up off of their feet and tries to put Joe on. Joe's pissed. And I understand why Joe's pissed. He's saying, hey, first off, Joe's 42 years of age. He doesn't come there to be fouled. He's going to fight. Okay, and the whole thing is look where his hands are. They're overhooked right now. The other guy's got his hands on the ground. So you know, you don't want your hands on the ground. So Joe's in a decent part to at least, if he wants to defend himself. So when he gets up, he's pissed off and everything, and then Beltran takes a point from the opponent and asks Joe, do you want to be you want to stand up or do you want back on the ground and Joe picked I want to be back on the ground okay why do you give your why do you why are you allowed to make a decision you're allowed to make the decision because you were the one that was fouled in a normal situation he said I want to be back on the ground he said I want to be back on the ground that seems crazy I agree with you it's not what you would expect out of Joe Schilling world class world champion kickball exactly yeah and so with that you got to you know he's the one felt if the person on top is the one fouling normally we're going to say they're going to lose their position but there are many grapplers and people that have a hard time getting that person down and so we we went back to saying all right we're going to give the person who was fouled the opportunity to make a decision normally we're going to put it back on the feet but if you want to put it back on the ground i'll put it back there but you're going to be in the same position as you were when the foul occurred right and that's what mike beltran went to do. And so he starts to put him back. You have Abena is the opponent, and he starts to put his hands on Joe's biceps. If you watch when they start to... When they put him back on the ground. Joe tries to do the overhook. You saw the overhook, and Abena starts to put his hand on the biceps. He did it on the left bicep, right? Yeah. And so it's not a matter of... Beltran wasn't there to start the fight yet. He's got to put him in that position, but Joe, once that bicep thing started happening he got mad and he said i'm done i'm you know stop the fight you can't make somebody fight if someone says i you know i want out of the fight they're out of the fight so beltran was in a position where he says he wants out of the fight he's he started he fouled me and that's what he's saying and now he feels like he's not going to be put back in that same position but he hadn't been it's not like beltran started it he's trying to put him back in the same position when Joe's kind of just losing his steam and getting pissed off. And so, you know, I look and I say, look, if you're going to be that pissed off, it's a good thing you're not fighting because you don't fight smart and you're going to end up getting hurt. But he's the one that decided that...

So he clearly has two overhooks at the end of the fight. At the time of the foul, he's got an overhook, both sides. Yeah. Well, sort of. The right one's not totally overhooked.

But he's holding the back of the triceps. So you're going to say, okay, so that's where he's at. Look where the opponent's hands are at. Opponent's hands are under his shoulders. Yeah. Okay, so that's where he should start. That's where it should be started. But he never gave Beltran the actual ability and time to say, no, no, put your hand here. And you can see Beltran starts to, you know, as Abena starts to try to put his hands on the biceps, Beltran's starting to put him underneath. So it's not Beltran. Why Joe would want to go back to the ground. You know, that's the real question. And, you know, all I know is at 42 years of age, you know, you're looking and saying, you know, Joe Schilling can fight. You know, Joe Schilling, he was a gangster, no doubt about it. And he at this point is, you know, is he looking to, you know, become a champion? No, he's not looking to be a champion. So I'm taking the fight for what reason? For money. And so I think he just looked at it and based upon, well, this is not what I expected. I expected a fair fight. I expected us to fight like professionals, and this dipshit is now head-butting me. He just got pissed, and he lost his cool with it. And when he wasn't being put back right away into that same position where he thought the guy is now trying to up again, take another advantage, it just sent him off the end. And he said, I'm done. Right. He just got too emotional. He got too emotional with it.

That's a bummer.

Yeah, it is, because Joe's a great guy.

When you fought at the level he's fought at, you expect a certain level of professionalism. Yep. and when you have these young guys that come in, it feels a little disrespectful. You knew where you were at. Why are you trying to game the system right now? Also, you just head-butted him, which is crazy.

There's a lot of people saying, well, I don't think it really hit him. It hit him in the jaw. It didn't hit him head-to-head. You're not allowed to use your head as a striking instrument.

It's a foul. And it's pretty clear that he was trying to do that. It wasn't as simple as positioning his head,

trying to get a better... We say you can use your head as a steering instrument, as a third arm. You can press with it. You can do a lot of uncomfortable things with it. You cannot pick it up and bring it back to strike. And it was clear that that's what he was doing. That's exactly what he did.

I think it's just very awkward for a lot of people that see Joe Schilling in his past fights. He's been through it all. And then for him to get super frustrated this way, it was a lot of people questioned. I'm like, I don't question it all because you expect, like I said, a certain...

level of professionals. I'm like, we know that we're both going out there to fight and knock

each other out. Why do you got to cheat? There's a certain, there's a certain set of rules that we're doing this under. Right. And now you're taking those rules and just tossing them to the side. Like, you know, this doesn't mean something. No, it means something to me. I'm 42 years of age. I don't expect someone to be fouling me just on purpose. And then look at the whole, no matter what that was, you know, right now we use intent. Okay. That was intentional. right he did something i call it malicious it's a malicious attack on him you know you're maliciously trying to inflict an injury on someone through a foul yeah yeah no doubt did you watch the mvp

fights yes what was your takeaway on that um the overall card as well as the gina and you know and

ronda fight i mean look when you're coming in as your first time putting on a promotion there's no way it's all going to be smooth it's not possible you know just there's no way you you're also you're not dealing with the same caliber of names other than Gina and Rhonda and Francis you know the Mike Perry Nate Diaz fight was um when was the last time Nate fought MMA it's been a while probably six years been a while yeah six years somewhere around there which is kind of crazy yeah right And Mike has been fighting bare-knuckle and fucking people up for quite a while. Dude. He's an animal, dude. Yeah. He's found his sport, though. 2022. So four years ago. Four years ago, he beat Tony Ferguson.

But he's found his way. This is stylistically the best thing he could do for his career is fight bare-knuckle, fight boxing. This is the best thing for him.

And Mike is, like, uniquely talented at bare-knuckle. Like, uniquely.

Look, I'm being honest, I used him as my demonstrator for, you know, Andy Foster is the executive officer in California, and he didn't like Bare Knuckle. You know, I wrote the rules for Bare Knuckle long ago. Dave Feldman came to me and said, hey, you know, I need rules written for me. I'm trying to legalize this. You know, someone that I knew hooked him up with me, and I said, look, I'll write your rules. And I gave him two prices. And I said, I'm not doing it for free. It's too much of a pain in the ass. So here's my two prices. My one price is you don't say who wrote them, and you just use them. And the other price is you say who wrote them. And it was because I knew I was going to get in trouble for doing this. And, you know, oh, what does John McCarthy think he's doing? Now he's writing rules for that.

Did you write the rules for slap fights? No. I don't like slap fights. I hate those.

You can't defend yourself. That's it. That's the only fucking rule. That's the dumbest thing ever.

Crazy. Have you seen the other where they just run at each other? Oh, no. It's even worse. They're like, hold my beer. Oh, my God. You think slap fighting's retarded? Hold my beer. We're just going to run at each other full belt.

And that's what it's called. Run it. Right? Those things are crazy. It's crazy. But the whole thing with the Mike Perry thing is trying to get athletic commissions to start to understand. Because they're all into this thing. Joe, it's like you take a look at MMA. I'm allowed to hit you with a shin to the dome like you talked about. I'm allowed to take my knee and hit it to your dome. I'm allowed to take my elbow and smash you, you know, even when your head's against the ground. I'm allowed to do all these things. But my bare fist is the big problem, right? It's kind of funny. Oh, it's ridiculous. But it's perception, and perception is a real problem because people believe what they're saying. Oh, it's horrible. So, you know, Andy Foster was one of the ones that he didn't like it. And I said, Andy, you know, I tried saying, go through those whole things with the shin, the knee, the elbow. And he goes, yeah, I know. he says, I just don't, I don't like it. I said, Andy, I need you to look at it this way then. I go, there are people out there that are made for boxing. Floyd Mayweather, Terrence Crawford, Canelo Alvarez, they're made to be a boxer. They have all this technical skill. You know what? They're just unbelievable. I said, there's these guys, same thing in MMA. There's the George St. Pierre's. You know, you got the Alexander Volkanovsky's. You got the, all these people, you know, that are, you know, Islam Makachev was the last one I used. I said, they're made for mma i go mike perry was an mma fighter i said he's not made for mma he's a tough guy i go but bare knuckle he was made for i said and this is a guy who can make a living fighting for bare knuckle he can pay his bills he can support his family fighting bare knuckle and become a star i said yeah i said and possibly get you know sponsors and everything that are going to make it so he can live the rest of his life i said and you're going to say that you want to take that away because of a bare fist i go it just doesn't make sense to me he looks at me he

goes you're right the best thing that could have happened to him was him leaving like him being released from the ufc oh yeah oh yeah absolutely this episode is brought

Brought to you by Amazon, MGM Studios' new movie, Masters of the Universe, only in theaters June 5th. Y'all remember He-Man, right? You got a huge 80s icon, the Sword of Power, Skeletor, the whole thing. They brought it back as this big live-action movie, and the cast is pretty wild. Nicholas Galatine, Camilla Mendez, Alison Brie, Morena Baccarin, and Idris Elba, just to name a few. After being separated for 15 years, the Sword of Power leads Prince Adam, played by Galatine, back to Eternia, where he discovers his home shattered under the fiendish rule of Skeletor. For the hardcore fans, we finally get to see the world of Eternia. To save his family and the world, Adam must join forces with his closest allies, Teela and Duncan, man-at-arms, and embrace his true destiny, the most powerful man in the universe. This is one of those movies that feels made for the biggest screen out there. Big action, big world, even bigger characters. Masters of the Universe is only in theaters June 5th. Don't miss it. Get tickets now at mastersoftheuniverse.movie. This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Okay, when it comes to sleep, I've got to have the right temperature dialed in, depending on the time of year that might be ripping hot. I'm talking volcanic or igloo levels of iciness. The point is, I need the temperature to be just right so I can get deep sleep, the kind of sleep that drives real recovery. And luckily, Eight Sleep is all about giving you the best sleep possible. Their new Pod 5 Smart Mattress Cover is designed for deep sleep and personalized for you, automatically regulating the temperature on each side of the bed in real time. Why? So you and your partner can consistently hit your ideal deep restorative sleep range and wake up feeling truly refreshed and recovered. Use my code ROGAN at 8sleep.com slash ROGAN for up to $350 off the Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is that you get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don't like it. But I got a feeling your body will love your investment in better sleep. That's code ROGAN at 8sleep.com slash ROGAN. You got an old-timey ring? Andy Foster's calling you. That's funny. Put him on speakerphone. I don't want to put Andy under a spot like that

and Andy's done such a great job he does things that people don't realize he's now got a license plate that's out for retired fighters to try to get them a retirement he's got a retirement for boxers already that was set he's been doing things to try to get a retirement fund for a Josh Thompson who fought 15 times in California 19 I looked it up I'm wrong 19 times in California, he can get an actual retirement. Now, it's not going to be a retirement that he gets paid every month. They'll give him a large sum of money that he can then go. He can go to a trade school. He can buy a house. He can do these things as a down payment. Andy just put in a thing. It just got turned down because of a staffer. It was Assembly Bill 2130 in California. And that Assembly Bill was no money out of the taxpayers' money, zero taxpayer money it's about sponsorship a dumbass like me as a referee has to wear a sponsors thing on my shirt that will then 75 of it went to retired fighters 25 of it went to training for upcoming and in-service officials both judges and referees what's the negative There is no negative, but you get these people in politics that sit there and go, oh, I don't like this. You want to know what their negative was?

This is in California, by the way.

Yeah, this is in California.

California is the best state for decisions. But their whole thing was-

As we both live in Texas now. Think about this. We all left there. But their whole thing was, well, that would allow the sponsor to say that they're basically part of California, and they're running, they're doing things for California. It's like, they are doing things for California. They're helping the people that fucking put on fucking entertaining fights and things for people here. It's ridiculous. There was nothing good. There's some great people in California. There are. Sure. And there's some great assembly people. I just did a whole thing for Heath Flora, who's an assemblyman there, and he's putting up a bill about you being able to, if you protect somebody other than yourself and from somebody that's trying to do something, He's trying to make it to where they

can't civilly go after you makes sense yeah you're doing the right thing right but no there's people fighting against it why it's just oh politics politics suck they suck in california yeah yeah my dad always used to say think about the word politics poly meaning many ticks blood-sucking little insect it's a bummer it's a bummer it's crazy and then uh did you did you see that cokers

returning to mma i did give me give me your tip i like scott like a lot but good luck yeah it's 60 million dollars yeah when i saw it was only 60 million dollars i was like that sounds like a lot of money until you think about putting on an mma promotion and then and then getting television production and then you know paying fighters and then securing venues and then having staff full time for like maybe you know you got tony hawk with you maybe yeah i mean look i'm rooting for him i think he did great when he was running glory as well as when he was running bellator back in the day he's a really nice guy yeah i think it's great for everybody if there's more competition i think this whole mvp thing in the netflix thing is great it stirred a bunch of cash into the organization a bunch of people got more money than they would have ever gotten anywhere else awesome i'm more options the better yeah i think just you know i hope he could do it yeah

i think a lot of us i think a lot i think a lot of people do because i think as as they do grow promotions right the fighters get more experience on a high level competition you need to fight fighters from all around the world i'm just excited for more promotions to be involved

yeah more promotions is good more options is good more money is what we really want the fighters

need to get more money and it's always going to be the ufc here yeah you know and ultimately it just comes down like you need more people to build up to get to that level name a good xfl game that

you watched you know i'm saying it's true nothing wrong i'm sure great athletes but it's the whole

thing and you know you're part of it you you know what you did with the ufc and how you made it exciting for people when you were calling fights so you know it's a people now a lot of them they don't even know the fighters that are on the card but they'll they'll turn it on when it says ufc because they believe in the product yeah right and that's that's what you're supposed to do as as the company and you know and and for marketing but the one problem i do think they have right now is they're unable to market people like they did when you know you and i were early in it and stuff you know they now are in a position every week and so it's tough to market you know yeah those the guys who are not well-known.

Fight nights, a lot of times, the casuals have no idea there's even a fight night. Exactly. And some of them are fucking insane. Oh, some of the best cards.

We talk about all the time, it's like the card itself rates, if you're looking at it, honestly, it rates a 5. On paper. It rates a 5.5. And then you'll watch it and it's a 9.5. Yeah.

They're working to get to the top. Those are the hungry ones. They've got something to prove.

And for hardcore fans, it's like giving them constant food. Or drugs.

yeah right but it's giving them that dopamine it's over it is the thing when you look at it it's the hardcore fan that the ufc has but the casual one's the one that puts it over yep and it's hard to get people to understand you need to get the casuals the ones that don't watch fights all the time and that's the one thing i'll give i'll give ronda rousey man i thought she did an amazing job of talking 100 and putting you know things out there the way she did she made she got people's attention she did what was her job yeah and they 17 million people were watching

that's right that's huge it's all good for everybody it's good for the sport it's great for the sport it's like that's what we need we need more competition more more eyeballs on it and unfortunately for the cat you know the people that are casuals it has to be a name you know it has to like this conor mcgregor fight in july is going to be fucking bananas it's going to be bananas i mean people are going to go crazy for the return of conor mcgregor because he's a giant personality.

But don't expect the same... How could it be? You just can't.

He hasn't fought in five years, right? That's exactly it. He's been five years.

But that's the problem. It might be more. Because they're going to all expect that.

I think it is a little over five. It's almost six, I think. It might be six at the time of the fight. I think it was July.

I think it's five right now.

Are we expecting to see a Conor that looked like Nate this last fight? Or are we expecting to see a better Conor than someone that looked like Nate?

Because Nate did not look good. No, but Mike Perry did. Mike Perry looked like a fucking murderer

You know what I mean? Mike Perry is a murderer He's a murderer Such a savage You take a look at that, when you're taking an older fighter Which Nate is now

21, five fucking years ago July, so it literally will be Six years

Oh no, it'll be five years When you're taking a younger fighter And putting them against the old dog It normally doesn't end well For the old dog

Well, the thing is about Max Holloway is like Max Holloway isn't. that much younger than Conor. No, he's not. But the thing is, Max has been in constant high-level competition the entire time. Won the BMF fight, beat Dustin, like constant high-level competition.

That's right. It's a different thing. And I honestly believe him at 155 is the best thing for him.

But he's not 155 in this fight. He's 170.

Honestly, he might be better. No weight cutting at all. Just no weight cut, just kind of walk

around. And also, knowing this is such a high-profile fight, he's going to... Max is always in insane shape. But particularly in this fight, he's going to be in fucking insane shape.

And his last fight, he took almost no damage. He got taken down, controlled, back taken, and there was not a lot of damage taken in that fight. No, just frustration. Yeah, frustration. Bro, Charles looked like a

motherfucker in that fight. He's so good. Dude. He's so good. Good everywhere, too. And on the ground, he's just so goddamn dangerous. Which just makes you think, how good is Islam? Because Islam just smushed him.

I can tell you, he's really good.

I mean, it's kind of crazy, though, when you think about how strong Charles' grappling is and how Islam just...

Yeah. Dude, he called it. He called it. He said, he goes, Islam is going to submit Charles. And he goes, and he's going to submit it with a head and arm choke. I said Kimura or head and arm.

I said either one, for sure.

I go, shut up. Yeah. Okay, just shut up. He's not going to do that.

I said he would do it before three rounds. He did it, you know, obviously very quick. But it was... His grappling is just otherworldly.

And the way he secures that darts by grabbing the forearm, I've seen a lot of guys try that now.

A lot of guys are going to that now. Because you don't have to get as deep. So you just go through and it's right at the top and cover the head with your chest and just suck it in.

You see people doing things all, you know, we always talk about, you know, back a long time ago, figure four in the body. We go, don't do that. They step the foot inside, it cranks you. It's bad. How about that crazy guillotine that A.J. McKee does? Oh, the McKee-a-teen.

yeah how about that fucking thing like how come no one's doing that that's the whole thing look okay look at what body styles when he did that i was like wait yeah his body style he's so long

he's able to reach him especially at 145 he's huge for 145 yeah he's a big boy but grand dawson just did the genie choke okay how many times have you seen that done in competition but i've seen it in in the the the grappling room all the time right guys doing it right and all of a sudden people are like, never seen that. It's like, dude, it's been

around forever. Well, it's like when we talked about Edson Barboza knocking out Terry Edom. How did he get to that fight before that was the first wheel kick KO? Well, we've seen a ton of them since then, but that was the first one? Like, that doesn't even make sense. When Anderson Silva front kicked Vitor in the face, we were like, wait, hold on! You could do that? Like, I remember Eddie and I having a conversation about kicks, and he goes, what do you think about front kicks in the face? I'm like, eh, doesn't really land that often. Incorrect!

And then Machida does it to Randy, and then Machida

He does it to Vitor. Oh, my God. So Vitor's been on the receiving end of twice on that kick. Yeah, man. I mean, there's been a bunch of them now. Now you see a lot of front kicks to the face because it's such an unexpected thing, especially if a guy's, you know, you're getting hit to the body with it a bunch and you're getting used to doing this. And then, donk, it hits you right on the chin. It's just such an unexpected technique. Every time we think that we're not going to see something new, something new pops up. But the crazy thing about front kicks is it's literally the first thing you ever get taught. When you learn how to kick, that's the first thing you ever get taught. The idea of there being a new use for the first thing you ever learn is kind of crazy. A little snap kick. Yeah. That's nuts. I mean, karate, like, that's day one.

That's it.

Just like that. Exactly. And that's what it looks like, too. All goofy and shit. The fact that that's the kick that—and then calf kicks, of course. Like, that's number one. It's interesting because Cub Swanson is actually saying that he was the first guy to throw calf kicks. He was saying, no, no, no, go back to 2011. I was landing calf kicks. I forget who he fought. They said he fucked somebody up with a calf kick.

Well, then I'll tell you before that, though, Benson was one of the early ones. George Masvidal. Really? Yes, he was doing it in Strikeforce in 2007, 2008.

Really?

Well, I believe around that time.

If you look at ATT as a team, they do calf kicks all the time. That is a huge weapon that they use.

You go back and watch Masvidal when he fought K.J. Nunes and how he just destroyed K.J. Nunes. And he kept kicking the calf to the head kick, to the body shots, to the boxing. He just pieced him up.

People forgot how good Masvidal was. When he knocked out Eve Edwards for the head kick, people really sleep on Masvidal. Masvidal was slick. He was so good. When he knocked out Cowboy, when he knocked out Darren Till, how about that one? That one was bananas, that step-in hook.

Yeah, because that was a weight class above what he normally fought. Yep, yep. He was one of those sleeper guys. But he was better when he went up, just like most guys are. But he never got the credit he deserved. Everywhere he went, whether it was Strikeforce, into the UFC. He never got credit until he started doing things that people didn't think he could do. Right. You know, when he knocked out, like you said, Darren Till, the running across the cage with Ben Askren, like those kind of things. He had no love up until those moments. It's true. That guy was always nasty. Yeah. Always.

Dude, all the way back to his street fighting days with Kimbo. Right. He had some good ones.

Yeah. I wanted to ask you this because I look at these guys now. What is it with the younger fighters that can't get past the old dogs? Like Dustin doesn't have to retire. Justin Gaethje doesn't have to retire. They're still ranked at No. 2 and No. 3. What are you seeing on your side that makes you think, like, man, these young guys, these old guys, they're not going softly into the night. They're not letting these guys come by. Why can't the younger guys get past them? Patty not being able to get past Justin.

Patty was not at Justin's level with stand-up. Justin's level was, like, quite a bit. First of all, Justin is an elite grappler. So, like, what is Patty going to do? Is he going to take him down? That's not a picnic. and standing up with Justin. Justin has, like, some of the nastiest fucking leg kicks in the sport. I wish he'd use him more. I know, right? Remember when he used to throw him from the clinch? Yeah. Like, he's in tight with you, and he's kicking down on your legs. And you're like, how are you moving your hips like that? He was an animal. He still is an animal. It's like he's not – he hasn't faded. You know, Justin's not faded. That Fazeev fight – Fazeev is an elite, world-class striker, and he beat him upstanding. Yep. Twice. Yeah, he hasn't faded. Justin hasn't faded. He's just 36 or whatever he is, 37.

I think he's losing, but you've got to have a passion for the sport. And I think Dana says, look, if you're not 100% in, don't do this. And he's right. And I think there comes that point where it just gets to that, you know what, there's other things out in the world that I want to start doing and things.

Do you think Justin's at that spot right now?

I'm not too sure he's at that spot, but I think he's thought about it based upon some of the performances and the tight fights he's had. I think the fight with Max Holloway made him kind of think about it. That was a tough fight for him all the way through. All the way through. All the way through.

I think he lives a comfortable life. He does. I think he lives a good life. He enjoys playing golf with the boys. Oh, yeah. You know, he's another guy. I know he's like, oh, I've spent money. I need to make more money and this and that. But he also, to me, every time I take a look and when people talk about him, I think that he's done really well for himself. I think he's doing well for himself. I don't think he's in any danger where he's losing the passion of it.

Well, I did the Naked Gun, whatever, the second edition of the Naked Gun with Liam Neeson. And we had Kamaru Uzman and Justin Gaethje were two of the fighters in it, right? And he was hysterical throughout the whole thing, right? And he's such a button pusher with Kamaru. Kamaru would say, okay, let's go easy. And all of a sudden, Justin's doing something crazy. and come on. I was like, what the hell is wrong with you? He loves life. He enjoys life. And I think that, you know, there comes a point where he always had that attitude, you know, when he was undefeated, he goes, Oh, someone's going to knock me out. He's honest about things. And I love that about him that he's, he doesn't sit there and he doesn't play the, you know, Oh, well we'll see. And so he's honest and he tells you, you know what, you know, this may be my last one. And he's thought about it. And if he's thought about it, it's telling you it's a thought process is there how far will it go if he has a great performance against ilia i think he'll stick around maybe unfortunately i kind of think i'd rather see him go away i know that's saying because i love watching i would love to see him win and go away that's the whole point that's

what i said that would be nuts if he wins the title at the fucking white house and that says that's it i've hit my bucket list the white house thing is odd um i don't like it i don't like the

idea of fighting outside at all there's problems with it and then it's june and it's dc and we

looked it up the last time like last year same day was a hundred degrees yeah oh yeah yeah hot as fun you add the lights oh yeah you add the lights that attracts bugs how about dehydration oh yeah yeah the bugs are a big one go back to go back to ufc yeah with all those lights yeah go back to ufc3 see how hot it was how are they gonna fucking do anything about the bugs Because I know that Dana was talking about that recently. They were talking about maybe using fans. Is that enough? No, it's not enough. You got bug strips everywhere? What are you going to do? Like, how are you going to stop the bugs? There's a lot of bugs. You can spray. That's pretty much all you can do. Pesticide the shit out of the fucking line.

That's good for the fighters. That'll help with their breathing.

I just don't think that you should compete in a world championship fight in a non-controlled environment. I think it should be inside an air-conditioned arena. It should be a controlled environment just like every like you don't ask someone to do any of that You wouldn't ask them to play a world championship basketball game outside in the Sun. That'd be crazy Yeah, right you have to you play in a fucking air-conditioned arena, and that's how it should be

Yeah, I agree with you, but I understand the whole thing and I get it special listen, but it's gonna be a pain in the butt

a fucking roof yeah build a roof like you've got all the money in the world right you doing this you want to do this i don't know it's not my money it's four four thousand seats you build a four thousand seat arena how big is that get a fucking barn dominium put it in there you know like we did ufc's uh the troops yeah we did them in the troops we did in hangers yeah we did but

yeah they want that white house in the background put it in the background on tv who gives a fuck

It's just like when world-class fighters are competing, I don't think they should have to compete outside. They're already putting it in there. Imagine if someone loses a fight because it's too hot out. Imagine if that becomes a factor. Imagine the dehydrated fighters. Like the dehydrated fighters that are now being forced 24 hours later to fight. In 100-degree heat outside. In 100-degree heat. Under the spotlights.

Go back. I swear to God, UFC 3 was in North Carolina, and it was the hottest thing I've ever been in in my life. It was outside, UFC 3? No, it wasn't. It was inside with no air conditioning really inside. It was a 3,500-seat arena. They put 6,000 people into it. It was under the lights. It had to be 150 degrees. You saw everyone falling out. Hoist had the problem after chemo and stuff. Ken Shamrock fell out. They all pulled out and stuff. It was, Joe, it was the hottest thing I've ever been in in my life. It was brutal.

You have to ask yourself, as a fighter, though, is the spectacle worth my career? Right. Like, is it worth me going out there and fighting in these circumstances that I'm not used to?

Well, we did one outside at Abu Dhabi. That was when BJ Penn and Frankie Edgar fought, and then Damien Maia and Anderson. Anderson Silva against Damien Maia. And that one, bro, there were bugs flying around. It looked like birds. They were so big. I was like, that's a bug? What kind of bug is that? Can that kill me? Oh, yeah. Like, this is crazy. You're in the fucking desert. man there's some giant ass flying by make sure your microphone

sounds like a helicopter

coming by you're outside it's hot you're in the desert this is crazy like why are we fighting outside no because I think

I had read somewhere where Habib had said no I prefer Islam not take a fight there at the White House there's too many distractions you got all the media you got that whole week plus it's outside these are all things that your fighter is not used to doing why would I jeopardize his win streak his second title why would I jeopardize all of that yeah as legacy everything, just so we can fight at the White House. I know it seems great. Yeah, I fought there, but at the end of the day, I worked so hard to get here.

I don't want to lose it over this one thing. I just feel like you could put a roof over it. I mean, you got all this money. You're making a ballroom? Make a little, do it just on a regular basis. I mean, are they finishing the ballroom? Are we going to get that thing done? Make your own Apex Center. Boom. That's true. Make a fucking bar in Dominium. How hard is that? You know what I'm saying? Hard. Trust me, I just finished one. Did you? Oh, my God. Yeah, but you're one guy. Okay, exactly. Get a fucking team of the United States civil engineers. Get the fucking army to do it. Cheese, man.

So you're going to be at that one?

Yeah, I'm going to be there. Allegedly. Allegedly? If there's not a bomb that goes off between now and then. Who fucking knows? This world is crazy.

I love what you did with the Ibogaine with it, man. Thank you. Way to go.

What was the process on that? How long did that take?

I don't care what the process was. Way to go. Thank you.

The process was me texting Trump. Literally. I'm not bullshitting. I'm not bullshitting. I texted him on Friday. He showed up to the UFC on Saturday, shook my hand, and said, it's done. You're kidding. Oh, no. I'm not kidding at all. No. I texted him. He texted me back. Are you looking for FDA approval? Sounds good to me. I tell him how effective it is at helping all these veterans with PTSD, people with traumatic brain injuries, all these different things. I mean, we have a problem with fentanyl in this country. This is one of the best things that we've ever

Demonstrated. I'm like listen

There's so many people that risk their Life for this country. They come back and there's no help And this is the only thing that they've found helping. Yeah And it's illegal and that doesn't make any sense You shouldn't have to go to Mexico to get treatment For something that you got because You were defending your country. That's nuts And so he right away He was like look this makes sense to me Like he cut through all the Bullshit. Common sense. And there was a bunch Of people that were trying to get in the way of it A bunch of people. I mean, inside the White House people that were trying to get, and he's like, fuck you, fuck you, do it. And he, like, was telling them, just do it, make it happen. And he made it happen. And that's amazing for everybody.

Yeah, no, it was amazing that, you know what, you stepped up because you are going to be helping so many people. I don't think people don't have an idea of how bad it is and what that can do for them. So I think way to God. I was like, you always talk about you're a dummy. I'm a dummy. I always tell people, he's super intelligent. And you are, because you got that done. It just proves it.

I never asked him for anything else.

I've never asked him for anything. Never.

Maybe a signing pen or something. He gave me those. I didn't even ask. I've got a bunch of stuff. I've got a pen. I've got a bunch of things. But I was like, if there's anything that I would really ask him for that is bipartisan supported. Like Democrats support it. Republicans support it. 85% of the country supports it. Especially when it comes to things like Ibogaine, which is not even remotely recreational.

No.

I haven't done it. Makes people sick. Everybody's done it. It's horrible. You get diarrhea. But it's 24 hours of misery. But when it's over, you're a new person.

Good.

And, look, Rick Perry, God bless him, because if it wasn't for him getting behind it, that changed everybody's opinion. Here you have this Republican former governor of Texas who's talking about it and then talking about his own personal experiences doing it. So him and Brian Hubbard, I mean, they really went all out. And when I had them on my podcast, not once but twice to talk about this and the state of it where it's being passed in Texas, they got $100 million from Ken Paxton. Yeah. No. Was it Ken Paxton? No. No. Who is it? Dan Patrick. Sorry. Dan Patrick. So Dan Patrick, who approved this $100 million for this Ibogaine initiative. These people all deserve praise. There's a lot of people that for the longest time, they thought of psychedelics as being something that losers do. And then they realize, no, there's a lot of people that need help. And this could help everybody.

There could be a good side with the whole country.

I was just in San Diego last Monday, and then I was in L.A. on Tuesday. And it's unrecognizable. it's crazy it's sad like i and i and when you take a look at san diego it's always been beautiful beaches in the background and but it was worse than la i was in the burbank area and actually it was a lot nicer than san diego was and the gaslight district was just disgusting it's crazy what is it a gas lamp yeah it just i couldn't believe it i walked into a couple restaurants you got homeless people stumbling in trying to order not trying to take food off of people's plates while they're there i'm just like what is going on no law enforcement that's right it's the first time that I've went back and I've been back in the last three years I've been back two or three times a year easily it's the first time I went back and I was like man this is not what it used to be it just felt like for the first time I didn't feel safe there and it's weird to me and how do you get that, how do you bring it back

oh that's simple you bring it back by doing the right things, common sense things taking it oh I understand this But, I mean, who do you get to do it?

Do you think Chad Bianco does it? Do you think Steve Hilton does it? Like, who do you get to turn the state around?

Your girl, Katie Porter? She'll get it done? Oh, Jesus Christ.

She'll scold everybody into compliance.

But I'm sitting outside having dinner last night, and I'm watching a bunch of homeless guys talking to themselves. And this is the problem. I was a police officer for 23 years, okay? I've been out there with them. And you have people that, you know, they have serious problems, you know, and I understand, you know, the ACLU and stuff. They oh, it's not right to put them. No, it's better for them. And it's better for the people that are out on the street just trying to live their lives to have that person be put into a place where they can receive some medication, receive some help and try to get them back than it is to let these people just rot on the street and self-destruct and i'm watching and it's like how is that so hard to figure out that it's better to do something with them than it is to just let them be it's crazy yeah it's we've lost our way

you know as a society and i think a great reflection of that is how many homeless people you have camped out on your streets yeah those are the places where they've lost their way the most that's it and this is unfortunately a lot of these democrats run cities i owned a couple gyms

in san jose and just it was tent city and along the highway like leading up to my along the road that led up to my gym all those things but you would see they would they were stealing solar panels from people's houses and they would put them up on the side wall so they could charge their cell phones like they're smart enough to do these things right it's not as if like they're not they're just drug addicts there yeah it's a lot of that's it and then a lot of it is just

In areas like San Jose, that can help with that. 100%.

But things like in San Jose or San Francisco, they're giving them needles. They're giving them drugs. They're giving them phones.

It's like, why are we doing this? Well, the other problem is the amount of money that's involved in the homeless industry now. That's right. When you find out that California spent $24 billion and homelessness only got worse. And what have they done? Nothing. Not only that, but they tried to do an audit on it, and the governor vetoed it.

It's like, no, nothing to see. Nothing to see. Why waste time on that? It's only 24 billion guys. Well, how much did they spend on that bridge that had the for the mountain lions?

Hey, hey, hey, that's okay. The mountain lions need a fucking bitch. They need hugs

They need to it's uh, they need they need to wake up

And the problem is that they're in this bizarre mindset, this liberal leftist mindset that's just not tenable. You can't defend it. That's because it's crazy. It doesn't work.

Yeah. I always look at this. People talk about left and right. And most people are, I'm in the center. I think a lot of people are.

Yeah, most of us are. It's not where. But you get labeled as being on the right if you're not all the way to the left.

If you're not all crazy, you're to the far right. Yeah. It's nuts. It's absolutely just psycho. A nutty seesaw. Oh, my God.

Well, I just saw something that, I can't remember who it was, but they continue to talk about, you know, let's keep taxing the billionaires, keep taxing the billionaires. And do what? With the money. And that's the point, though. That's the thing. So why don't we just not- They're going to go away. Why don't we just not tax the people that make under $200,000?

That's actually something Jeff Bezos brought up. He said you should, the bottom 50%, the people that make the least amount of money, don't tax them at all.

He goes because they're not contributing that much to the tax base anyway and they would contribute more to the economy if it had more money. Absolutely. It would help everybody. That's right. I think he's right. I always said 150,000 down. Yeah, you don't pay taxes. That's a great number. I also thought about it, too, is if you were to take if you got rid of the you know, because they're talking about this housing shortage and all the other things. Why don't we get rid of the low interest rates? You know, because I have like a couple of interest rates on some houses that I have that are at 2 percent. How do you get rid of those? Well, why don't you just raise my capital gains tax so I don't got to, my wife and I or whatever, we can pay less on that versus that $500,000 threshold. Why don't you make it a million? So then I'll cash out on those and just take my money out. And then I'll start putting it back into the economy again.

Yeah, but you're talking like a sensible businessman. You can't be doing that in California. They'll put you in jail. They'll put you in Twitter jail.

You can do the death tax that he did in New York. I mean, look at what Mom Donnie's trying to do.

Oh, that's nuts. Oh, my God. People are just going to bail out of that city. It's crazy. It's these fucking people that think taxing the rich is the solution. And do what with the money? If you were doing a great job with the money and everything was accounted for and there was no fraud and waste, I'd be like, well, maybe you just need more money. But that's clearly not the case. That's not it. You've got so much fraud and you're ignoring it. And then this Nick Shirley kid, when he exposes it, everybody's like, yes, you should be praising him.

Hello, give that kid an award. Give him a fucking award.

Here, I want Journalist of the Year, and he's not a journalist. How much fraud do you think is in this country? Billions and billions and billions. I mean, Elon had said when he first came in, he goes, hey, I think it's close to a trillion dollars, maybe a little bit over.

He said it was so bad that he didn't want to talk about it too much because he was worried they'd kill him. You know, he really said that. Don't. Don't. Don't.

That's wild.

Joe, he's not lying. He ain't stupid. No. He's not. No, he's not.

He's anything but. No, he's not stupid. He's anything but. But, I mean, to think, though, how much in California they've discovered. Let's just say, what, $200 billion? At least. You know, somewhere around there. That's on the low end. New York's probably, and Chicago is. But they've got to do it in all states. You can't just do it in the ones where it's L.A. and Chicago and New York. We've got to do it in all states. It's got to be in Texas, too. It's got to be everywhere.

It's everywhere. There's fraud, and these people are profiting off of the fraud. They were funneling it right back into the parties, and it's dirty business.

Well, you didn't really think that that shovel the government pays for was really fucking $900?

Well, there's a lot of that is they get a budget and they have to pay, they have to spend all the money. They have to spend every bit of it. Yeah. Otherwise, they won't get the same budget next year. That's right.

Which is wild to me because the schools operate the same way. If the teachers don't spend a certain amount of money on these things and they don't get the same budget for next year. That's right. No, no. Why don't we reward the people that actually save the money?

Yeah.

It doesn't make any sense to me.

It just makes no sense. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What is wrong with you? I want to know when when do you come into my class your your refereeing class yeah When is it when you have it July 17th to the 19th? He's gone

But I'm not even gonna be in the country. Oh, okay But when are you doing one? Where are you doing them?

Usually I do them in Vegas at like extreme couture or something like that because I need the gym to put people in cages with

Fighters if I can I definitely will I would love to see it I'd love to see it is there a location we could do one that way

I don't have that way you look at any time, you know, you have my number text me if you have a question during the fight It's the text It's like when you say the waiter I get them all the time so it's not Just wrap it up I get them all the time so It's nice when you know exactly what the referee can do What where they're gonna go and when you're looking like with you know a Mark Goddard or a Herb Dean What when you know if you go to the club you'll know exactly hey this is what he can do and this is why he'll do it.

I'll definitely ask you.

I promise.

At the very least, I'll ask you next time an issue comes up. No problem. I'll have you on speed dial. There you go. Maybe I'll put you on speakerphone at the UFC. Hey, everybody, Big John's right here. Don't do that. it's it's the one thing that i'm i'm always watching and it's like you know and you guys are like i don't know i don't know i'm like this is the answer well you know i'll reach out i promise love you thank you brother love you too thank you very much this is fun let's do it again

absolutely there's always gonna be fights to talk about freaking a i live up the street so let me know anytime all right fuck yeah all right bye to you later bye everybody

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